Saudi Journalist Disappears in Saudi Consulate in Turkey

Accident-prone lot, aren’t they? It’s both amusing and profoundly shocking in (almost) equal measure.
The way they drive it could just as well be natural.
 
Dunno about the latter part and why is it doing it? It's not as if Erdogan's squeaky clean in respect of this kind of thing is it?

Vlad must be chuffed to rocks, MBS acting as a political bullet magnet for him.

Reckon he might be due a visit before Iiyad.
Erdogan isn’t squeaky clean but he also knows how unreliable ‘partners’ are in the ME and Central Asia. He has been courting European politicians of late and his influence in releasing Pastor Brunson has put him in the good books with the US (and Trump). Meanwhile the Qataris will be extending their credit line to Turkey seeing their nemesis being taken down a peg by the Turks; meanwhile this also allows Erdogan to re-enliven his version of political Islam that KSA and Egypt oppose. Win win.
 
But why are you sure that mr.Khashoggi was tortured or/and dismembered? Or you not absolutely sure?
Keep going dude.

Uncertainty is your friend in info operations, isn't it.

Bit of doubt, no matter how implausible.

Anyway, Let's see what comes of of this shall we?

Meanwhile, you carry on with your cathedral spotting club and barrel bomb appreciation society,
 
It would be interesting to see some evidence from a formal source. The Guardian article (which was very good) concluded with the observation that the major facts of the matter were slowly being corroborated. There are leaks of info, and the info leaked is convincing. If Erdoğan is past the gaining leverage stage (it seeming that the KSA is not going to play ball) when will it go official?*

*I have no wish to listen to the recording of Kashoggi's death, but it being aired, and those who knew him saying that the voice is his, would help nail KSA culpability, and they have two weeks of lies already to have to defend. The US, UK, EU etc would then be placed on the spot re. action against the Kingdom.
 
Erdogan isn’t squeaky clean but he also knows how unreliable ‘partners’ are in the ME and Central Asia. He has been courting European politicians of late and his influence in releasing Pastor Brunson has put him in the good books with the US (and Trump). Meanwhile the Qataris will be extending their credit line to Turkey seeing their nemesis being taken down a peg by the Turks; meanwhile this also allows Erdogan to re-enliven his version of political Islam that KSA and Egypt oppose. Win win.
Yeah, there's the obvious mileage there, thought he'd have been more subtle though.
 
The US, UK, EU etc would then be placed on the spot re. action against the Kingdom.
Pompeo says give them some more time (to get their story straight so that it doesn't conflict with the snippets the Turks are releasing):
Pompeo recommends giving Saudis 'a few more days' for Khashoggi investigation | Reuters
“I told President Trump this morning that we ought to give them a few more days ... so that we too have a complete understanding of the facts” before deciding on a response, Pompeo told reporters at the White House after meeting with Trump.
UK and US pull out of Saudi Arabia conference over missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi
Fox has already pulled out of the Conference.
UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia rose by two thirds in 2017
Meanwhile, apparently our sales have increased by more than two thirds.

There's a few countries which will be rubbing their hands with glee and they're not exactly 'journalist friendly' whether western or not.
 
Erdogan isn’t squeaky clean but he also knows how unreliable ‘partners’ are in the ME and Central Asia. He has been courting European politicians of late and his influence in releasing Pastor Brunson has put him in the good books with the US (and Trump). Meanwhile the Qataris will be extending their credit line to Turkey seeing their nemesis being taken down a peg by the Turks; meanwhile this also allows Erdogan to re-enliven his version of political Islam that KSA and Egypt oppose. Win win.
I just can't follow your idea of "win win" at all, any more than I can follow how Turkey's "doing the right thing" and taking "a step in the right direction to restore its international standing (and keep in closer to the Western Club)" by making itself look laughably incompetent, letting killers go when they've leaked information saying they already knew they'd tortured and killed Khashoggi, then saying they've got a tape of the killing (objectively pretty worthless, but good for dramatic effect) but they're not going to give it to anyone, which puts Trump firmly on the spot and digging in against western opinion, media and even prominent members of his own party!

How does that possibly put him "in the good books with the US (and Trump)" ?

Whatever Brownie points he may have gained with the US by releasing Pastor Brunson he must have lost in spades with the US and everyone else by making the West (and everyone else) take sides openly based on prejudice / greed / politics rather than evidence which would have given the West in general and the US in particular justification for whatever action (or lack of action) they take.

The only way it's "win win" for Erdogan is if he gains more by potentially dividing the West and Trump and making Trump look even more of an extremist than he does by alienating the KSA and looking incompetent.
 
Doesn't have to be bugging, just a presence.
I'm not following the significance of this. Obviously LEPs could have passed on the information that Khashoggi had a 1pm appointment, etc, and the cleaners could have said what they cleaned, but they'd all been 'fallen out' that afternoon so there were none at the Consulate at the crucial time. Sorry, I can't follow the point you're making.
 
The Guardian article (which was very good) concluded with the observation that the major facts of the matter were slowly being corroborated.
That all depends on whether you think "the major facts of the matter" are
  1. What happened in the Consulate ... or ...
  2. Who's responsible for what happened in the Consulate.
Trump's made it very clear that as far as he's concerned all that matters is who's responsible - or, more realistically, who the KSA find responsible as that's where they all are.
I have no wish to listen to the recording of Kashoggi's death, but it being aired, and those who knew him saying that the voice is his, would help nail KSA culpability, and they have two weeks of lies already to have to defend. The US, UK, EU etc would then be placed on the spot re. action against the Kingdom.
Sorry, can't agree.

All it would do, at best, is confirm what happened in the Consulate. As long as they stick to the USA / KSA story of "rogue killers", etc, those who want to can absolve the KSA and MbS from all blame.

The 'smoking guns' were the Consul, the hit team and the clean up crew, and Turkey's let them all go.

... and any " lies " such as his supposedly going out the back door, can also be neatly blamed on the Consul.
 
I'm not following the significance of this. Obviously LEPs could have passed on the information that Khashoggi had a 1pm appointment, etc, and the cleaners could have said what they cleaned, but they'd all been 'fallen out' that afternoon so there were none at the Consulate at the crucial time. Sorry, I can't follow the point you're making.
Wasn't aware that they'd been sent away.
 
Wasn't aware that they'd been sent away.
Understood now. All LEPs were fallen out at lunchtime due to a 'diplomatic meeting' at the Consulate.

Not sure how they avoided anyone else going in, but presumably they just closed the doors and had taken the simple precaution of not having any other appointments that afternoon.
 
Dunno if this has been linked to.
 
Sorry, can't agree.

All it would do, at best, is confirm what happened in the Consulate. As long as they stick to the USA / KSA story of "rogue killers", etc, those who want to can absolve the KSA and MbS from all blame.
A fair point but any defence of the KSA based on that argument is as laughable as the Russian chaps' claimed love of cathedrals. Put another way, at the moment the evidence is being leaked in drips. What is the benefit of not releasing the evidence now if it will need to be released at some point? The KSA defence about rogue elements will be unconvincing now, or if the formal release of evidence is delayed.

I get the idea that there's some benefit for Turkey in making the Saudis look like idiots for as long as possible.
 
A fair point but any defence of the KSA based on that argument is as laughable as the Russian chaps' claimed love of cathedrals. Put another way, at the moment the evidence is being leaked in drips. What is the benefit of not releasing the evidence now if it will need to be released at some point? The KSA defence about rogue elements will be unconvincing now, or if the formal release of evidence is delayed.

I get the idea that there's some benefit for Turkey in making the Saudis look like idiots for as long as possible.
"laughable" quite possibly, but that's not been a problem for Trump so far and it's obviously the line he's got no option but to take if he want's his master plan for the Middle East in general and Iran in particular to continue. Excellent op-ed in the Guardian explaining exactly why, and why without the KSA's full support (and his support of them) his whole plan falls apart and why he'll probably stick with them at all costs.
 
Official scapegoat.
 
Official scapegoat.
If that’s the case, and it has now become public knowledge, I wonder what the good generals’ reaction might be; leg it or stay and plead innocence?

Of course, if one wanted to come over all Machiavellian, it could I guess be argued that this information is being released (from three separate sources simultaneously) in order to provoke a reaction from General Ahmed al-Assiri that might make it easier to point the finger at him.
 

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