Saudi Journalist Disappears in Saudi Consulate in Turkey

Oh well, at least Putin can cheer up a bit - the Saudis are turning out to be even less credible as story-tellers than the Russians...
I wonder how we would have reacted if Putin had adopted Saudi Arabia's (potential) excuse? 'Rogue GRU hit team carried out Salisbury attack. Oops.'
Amazing what selling oil and buying arms can accomplish.
Edit: I am not saying that Putin is not wrong. He is. Just that it looks as if Mbs is being cut some slack.
 
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Sorry, my fault.

The "dilemma" for the KSA in general and the Consular staff in particular, as you pointed out, is that they first said Khashoggi left the Consulate by the back door and they're now going to say / having to admit that he was sliced 'n' diced on the premises.

The "way out" for the KSA, MbS, the US, Turkey, et al, is that the Consular staff are included in the "rogue elements" to be blamed / purged, after which life can continue as before (well, at least for all who aren't blamed / purged).

If I was the Consul or a member of the Consular staff I wouldn't be waiting for that to happen.
Funnily enough, the senior chap at the Saudi consulate in Turkey was interviewed on TV about a week ago. I have rarely seen someone look so nervous and uncomfortable on camera.
 
I wonder how we would have reacted if Putin had adopted Saudi Arabia's (potential) excuse? 'Rogue GRU hit team carried out Salisbury attack. Oops.'
Amazing what selling oil and buying arms can accomplish.
Watch this space ..... Btw, Russian officials were in KSA today to ostensibly discuss Syria. Maybe they will ‘help’? After all, they have form ref journalists.
Edit: I am not saying that Putin is not wrong. He is. Just that it looks as if Mbs is being cut some slack.
Sure. So long as you equate the two. One being a Nerve Agent injuring four and killing one inc British citizens. On top of a previous CBRN attack. Both in the U.K.
 
What has not been mentioned is the Saudi public.

When MBS went after the top Saudis it was a popular move, the very rich are generally envied and their methods of enriching themselves in many cases has not entirely legitimate, rife with cronyism, kickbacks and just plain corruption.

Khashoggi on the other hand is generally acknowledged as more of an ‘everyman’. Moderate rather than extremist, for human rights, a voice for the underdog.

This will be seen in the Kingdom in a poor light. It will probably not be voiced, it will however be deeply felt by a significant section of the population both Sunni and minority Shia. This cut across religious differences and will be a commen concern.

Reform of the kind MBS probably wanted was generally welcomed, these methods are very definitely not. The Saudi population is generally compliant but there are limits when any population will start becoming truculent. This may well be a significant point in the public’s acceptance of the various changes that have been occurring quite rapidly.
I'm not sure if you're not judging things by Western standards a bit too much.

I live in a country which is currently under a military dictatorship as it has been at various times before - indeed for the majority of the time since 'democracy' was introduced. Various basic human rights which are a 'given' in the West, such as the right for half a dozen people to get together to discuss politics or the right to share or just 'like' articles by the BBC on facebook or express an opinion about certain people are banned, with those doing so facing immediate removal by the military for 're-education' or decades in jail if tried and found guilty. Under the country's most popular elected prime minister (the only one to ever serve a full term in office and be re-elected) thousands of people, including some who were almost certainly innocent, were shot in extra-judicial killings by the police and army in an attempt to control the growing drug problem.

Much of that has been "seen in the Kingdom in a poor light." Dissent has been "voiced", and it has been "deeply felt by a significant section of the population" and is a cause of "common concern" across social barriers.

"Reform of the kind" the current leader here has voiced is "generally welcomed", as were the drug controls, but "these methods are very definitely not". The Thai "population is generally compliant but there are limits when any population will start becoming truculent" but even when prolonged rioting and armed confrontation was going on in Bangkok, the majority of the population took no part and had less active interest.

I'm sorry if that seems a bit facetious, and I'm not trying to draw any parallels between the Thais and the Saudis, or the Middle East and the Far East, far from it, but the attitudes of both are entirely different to the West.

This sort of thing (the Khashoggi abduction / killing) has been going on for decades in the KSA and across the Middle East, including (and often particularly) to people just like Khashoggi, and it's nothing new. The only difference is that it was overseas and he was living in the US, so I honestly think the reaction at home (in the KSA) is likely to be a mixture of 'so what ... big deal' to the more defensive 'well the West didn't give a stuff before, so why should we give a stuff now?'
 
Well since screwing up could make him next on the list he might be a trifle stressed
I think he was in the unfortunate position of being totally screwed whatever he did, or however much it had gone according to plan, whatever the plan was.

Collateral damage ...
 
Oh well, at least Putin can cheer up a bit - the Saudis are turning out to be even less credible as story-tellers than the Russians...
You have a point here. Indeed Khashoggi's diappearance overshadowed events happened in Salisbury.
Tough US sanctions against Russia would be illogical without any sanctions against the KSA.
 
Suggesting a break-in by rogue elements would be problematic (and dismissible) for Turkey as they are responsible under the Vienna Convention for the external safety and security of diplomatic premises.
 
I dont know about that, he paid the ultimate price for walking into the lions den despite knowing that it would probably not go well. If it was love he was doing it for then he should have steered well clear of Saudi territory and lived out the rest of his days with his bird.
Considering in his religion, living together outside of marriage is a no go if you are devout (which he was), he didn’t have much choice if he wanted to be with his woman. You may not realize this, but there are still a couple of people on the planet who follow their religious beliefs, shocking isn’t it.....
 
You have a point here. Indeed Khashoggi's diappearance overshadowed events happened in Salisbury.
Tough US sanctions against Russia would be illogical without any sanctions against the KSA.
Nice try but no cigar!
 
My old Granddad told me a few stories about these Arab types - from during his war days. Needless to say he hated them and didn't trust them one bit. As I get older and wiser to the world - I pretty much can see where he was coming from......this kind of activity carried out in Turkey by the Saudi's only reaffirms what I already suspected. I just hope and pray that one day a rogue asteroid hits the middle east and wipes it out - end of problem!
 
Pompeo meets Saudi king on Khashoggi case, Turks study toxic materials | Reuters
Erdogan talking about 'toxic materials' and these materials being painted over:
Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, speaking to reporters in parliament, raised the possibility that parts of the consulate had been repainted. “The investigation is looking into many things such as toxic materials and those materials being removed by painting them over,” he said.
I suppose (and yes, I've seen the debate), that's what happens when you don't immediately get warrants, enter and search premises, let cleaning teams enter just before you do and just let out little snippets of info
 
Considering in his religion, living together outside of marriage is a no go if you are devout (which he was), he didn’t have much choice if he wanted to be with his woman. You may not realize this, but there are still a couple of people on the planet who follow their religious beliefs, shocking isn’t it.....
He had plenty of choice!

Choice 1. Fly to Turkey from the States, where he knew he was safe, to join his fiancee, go to the KSA Consulate, then make an appointment to go back to the Consulate again a week later ... and not take anyone inside with him, nor have any of his press contacts pointedly waiting outside taking photographs both times, to give him some security.

Choice 2. Fly his fiancee from Turkey to the States to join him, where he knew he was safe, go to the KSA Embassy, then make an appointment to go back later, taking Saudi and American friends with him and have his press contacts from the Washington Post pointedly waiting outside taking photographs both times to give him some publicity.

Now let me think ... which one's safer if the KSA want to make a problem ... ?

I know, I'll go for 'Choice 1' as I'm a hard-arrse and don't need anyone else ... and just to show I'm a dumb-arrse as well I'll take my fiancee with me but I'll leave her standing outside on the pavement in the sun.

Edit: maybe I'm giving Khashoggi too much credit, but I really don't think he's a dumb-arrse.
 
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He had plenty of choice!

Choice 1. Fly to Turkey from the States, where he knew he was safe, to join his fiancee, go to the KSA Consulate, then make an appointment to go back to the Consulate again a week later ... and not take anyone inside with him, nor have any of his press contacts pointedly waiting outside taking photographs both times, to give him some security.

Choice 2. Fly his fiancee from Turkey to the States to join him, where he knew he was safe, go to the KSA Embassy, then make an appointment to go back later, taking Saudi and American friends with him and have his press contacts from the Washington Post pointedly waiting outside taking photographs both times to give him some publicity.

Now let me think ... which one's safer if the KSA want to make a problem ... ?

I know, I'll go for 'Choice 1' as I'm a hard-arrse ... and just to show I'm a dumb-arrse as well I'll take my fiancee with me but I'll leave her standing outside on the pavement in the sun.
What are you babbling on about? My response was addressing about a devout believer in his faith not living out of wedlock......you read way to much into everything, still working on who offed jfk?
 
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My old Granddad told me a few stories about these Arab types - from during his war days. Needless to say he hated them and didn't trust them one bit. As I get older and wiser to the world - I pretty much can see where he was coming from......this kind of activity carried out in Turkey by the Saudi's only reaffirms what I already suspected. I just hope and pray that one day a rogue asteroid hits the middle east and wipes it out - end of problem!
God forbid. There is Israel in the ME. I hope it will blossom further.
 
The boss back in KSA will need a patsy, as I remarked a while back in a discussion about Donald T, "Where is Lee Harvey Oswald when you really need him?".




Hmm.. I wonder if the "patsy/fall guy" will have an appointment with this chap on his return to the less than magical Kingdom.....Just to show the Saudis are doling out justice impartially, well in their eyes anyway.

 
Pompeo meets Saudi king on Khashoggi case, Turks study toxic materials | Reuters
Erdogan talking about 'toxic materials' and these materials being painted over:


I suppose (and yes, I've seen the debate), that's what happens when you don't immediately get warrants, enter and search premises, let cleaning teams enter just before you do and just let out little snippets of info
The Turks obviously couldn't get search warrants for the Consulate, but why they wanted to let out the little snippets, which delayed the search and they now can't / won't support, is beyond me.
 
What are you babbling on about? My response was addressing about a devout believer in his faith not living out of wedlock......you read was to much into everything, still working on who offed jfk?
Babbling on about your quoting @HTB talking about his going into "the lion's den", which was the exact phrase I'd used two posts before to specifically describe the KSA Consulate in Turkey which hasn't been used before in this thread, immediately following discussion with @terminal about why he had had no need to go to the KSA Consulate in Turkey.

If your "response was addressing about a devout believer in his faith not living out of wedlock" and nothing to do with his going to the KSA Consulate in Turkey then it was as badly written quoting @HTB as it was ill-timed and pointless.
 
Funnily enough, the senior chap at the Saudi consulate in Turkey was interviewed on TV about a week ago. I have rarely seen someone look so nervous and uncomfortable on camera.
He's reportedly already left Turkey for Riyadh, just before his house was searched. I suspect he's probably rather more nervous and uncomfortable now and somehow I doubt he'll be returning to help the Turkish police with their enquiries and if ever mentioned again I expect it'll be in the context of "rogue elements".
 

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