Saudi Journalist Disappears in Saudi Consulate in Turkey

Why some ARRSErs are so nervous? It is above my understanding. Overemotional reactions could lead to high blood pressure to problems with heart.
Weighing in at 118kg and saying you’re not well, methinks your BP is a tad high.
 
Their Ministry of Foreign Affairs appears to disagree.....



Put out on the KSA Ministry of Foreign Affairs English twitter feed.
Classic. They seem to be following Iranian examples. I wonder if we’ll be the new ‘little Satan’?

I did look up how much oil we import from KSA. Not a great deal percentage wise
 
However this is not carte Blanche. If a diplomat (and their family) break local laws, they can be PNGd and forced to leave. Most western counties (weo USA) adopt the principle that if there is an equivalent law at home (and roughly equivalent punishment) the diplomat should be tried locally, subject to getting a fair hearing. Locally employed staff enjoy no such immunity and are this very vulnerable to the visscitudes of the HN.
This is the bit that matters imho and the interpretation on a case by case basis by the countries involved. That's what I'm getting at. In principle these matters are covered no doubt.
 
If you mean the Iranian Embassy siege (1980) it was actually a small point that the UK conveniently forgot, as they apparently never had Iranian permission to enter the Embassy and Iran never asked the UK to intervene.

Another example, though, may be the shooting of WPC Fletcher from the Libyan Embassy in 1984. Although arrests were made over 30 years later the inquiry was dropped for 'national security reasons'.
I think he is referring to the siege of the US Embassy in Tehran and the abduction of the US staff.
 
The last US Ambassador, Jon Bass, left Ankara over 14 months ago (for Kabul); luckily the Chargé, Phil Kobsett, is an old Turkey hand and a contemporary (in both Ankara and DC) of the British Ambassador, Sir Dominick Chilcott. But still not the same as having an accredited HOM.

The Stare Department is in a terrible state. They’ve been sidelined by the current administration and morale is at an all-time low, with the best and the brightest leaving in droves.
On that topic, thought you might enjoy this sentiment

Rory Stewart, then a back bench MP, was talking in Parliament on 28 NOV 2011 in a North African and Near/Middle East debate

At this time we need to remember that that very modest investment in the Foreign Office—only £1 billion a year on its core costs, if we exclude the British Council and the World Service—is an extremely wise insurance and investment.

We need to remember at times like this how vital is the ability to set out our limits, to set out a strategy and vision, to explain exactly, as this Government are doing, and to continue to explain more clearly to the public, exactly what Britain believes and what our strategy is—that peculiar mixture of pragmatism and belief in rights, a belief not just in ideals but in common sense, expressed in a world that understands that today of all times a residence can be much more powerful than a regiment, a Tuareg specialist than a Tornado, an Arabist than an aircraft carrier, and that the Foreign Office is our strength, our nation, and our defence.
North Africa and the Near and Middle East - Hansard

Probably a point for another thread, but the belief in the death of expertise and the denigration of career civil service is a cause of both capability and influence loss.
 
Great sentiment. I (modestly) think that I achieved more in the defence and security of the UK as a diplomat that I ever did in 27 years of being in the Air Force.

Swinging back to Turkey, Sir Dominick in Ankara has held four HOMs; he was run out of Teheran by those pesky students in 2011, after leading staff to safety from the burning chancery.

Dominick Chilcott - Wikipedia
 
Why some ARRSErs are so nervous? It is above my understanding. Overemotional reactions could lead to high blood pressure to problems with heart.
Everything seems above your understanding.
What is not explained in this version of events?
Everything I pointed out before. Twice.

The problem with your posts, beyond their stupidity, is that they detract from the very real possibility that it was a set-up, quite possibly including Khashoggi's willing participation (at least initially). The difference being that your version, with only Khashoggi and one other to enable him to either set-up MBS or just escape or rip-off his fiancee is absurd given the other participants.

It's highly possible, if not indeed probable, that it was a set-up to embarrass MSB with Khashoggi as either the fall guy or a willing participant, or both.

Khashoggi's readiness to go into the Consulate with no safety precautions at all is inexplicable. Even his fiancee could have gone in with him, but she says he told her to wait outside. Maybe he thought it was all being staged and didn't realise that a set-up would be far more credible with him dead, or certainly not re-appearing miraculously later, and he over-estimated his own value alive.

Plenty of "maybe's", but looking at the big picture and all the known and reported events there's nothing that's out of place or negates that "version".
 
I think he is referring to the siege of the US Embassy in Tehran and the abduction of the US staff.
Thanks, @metocman, exactly so. And, why, having violated Diplomatic Protocol, Iran to this day has no Embassy in the USA. On 7 April 1980, Carter severed US diplomatic relations with Iran and they have remained so until today.

The US has no diplomatic ties with Iran, and N Korea. Bhutan is a third, however that is Bhutan’s choice as it has chosen to isolate itself. For a long time only having diplomatic relation with just two neighbouring countries India and Pakistan. It still has no diplomatic relations with any of the permanent members of the UN Security council.

The Saudi’s have now fallen back on the standard tactic. Deny deny deny. Putin did it, and has basically said, so what!

Problem is that the initial Turkish reaction was so extreme/melodramatic and rapid that it caught the world’s attention instantly. True there is no body, and Turkey has now held back on producing whatever caused them to say what they did, however Kashoggi’s continued absence only serves to prolong the issue and with more and more people declaring their intention to not attend the Saudi’s big International financial meeting is having a toxic effect.

The Crown Prince’s reforms have in part been a step forward, his implementation, within the Kingdom, may have been extreme but were to a degree the countries own business. Abduction and murder abroad becomes a very different category as they are presently finding out, and could well be a step too far.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/12/middleeast/has-bin-salman-gone-too-far-robertson-intl/index.html

The @KGB_resident persona certainly seems the most successful in maintaining a steady reaction and dialogue. One of the more successful ‘operatives' on the forum.
 
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Thanks, @metocman, exactly so.

And, why, having violated Diplomatic Protocol, Iran to this day has no Embassy in the USA. On 7 April 1980, Carter severed US diplomatic relations with Iran and they have remained so until today
And the assault on the British Embassy in Teheran in 2011 (see my post above about HMA at the time). But these are very notable exceptions to the rule of inviolablity of diplomatic and consular missions. Hence why Julian A is outstaying his welcome in a certain embassy in London.
 
Mr.Khashoggi could have only one (maybe even low key) accomplice in the consulate to stage his fake disappearance
He *could* have been abducted by aliens, eaten by Zombies or bitten by a radioactive spider that made him invisible, but only a simple minded fool would start inventing scenarios to try and deflect from the more likely options.
 
Probably a point for another thread, but the belief in the death of expertise and the denigration of career civil service is a cause of both capability and influence loss.
I'm firmly convinced it's the key point in this thread, as the ignorance shown here and in other threads not so much by some posters but by those posting who are paid to have a certain level of expertise and understanding as they are supposed to have the insight to advise our politicians is not so much mind-boggling as seriously frightening, since their ignorance and ineptitude (amongst other people's) is what's led to the current shambles in the Middle East that the West's largely responsible for fermenting and enabling.
It's a topic for another thread I suspect, but this shows how valuable long term experience is.
As with your subsequent post, quoted above, I think it's the key here although I think there's an all too real danger of failing to realise the crucial difference between "experience" and insight, and knowledge and understanding.

The West, particularly the UK, has never had any shortage of people with "experience" and knowledge of other countries and cultures, particularly in the Middle and Far East. What it's increasingly lacked, though, more so with the US than anyone, are those with any insight and understanding. Sadly they're far from synonymous and the lack of any insight and understanding has led not only to the Khashoggi incident itself, either at the behest of MBS or his opponents, but the Saudi reaction which like so much else in the Middle East (Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, etc, etc) should have been fore-seen and pre-empted decades ago.

More than anywhere else in the Middle East, the West has totally misunderstood and mis-handled KSA, treating it as a stabilising and moderate influence, supporting it militarily and politically (often the same in the Middle East) above all others, when the objective reality is that it's been the polar opposite.

Just looking very briefly at MbS, whom I've never taken too much interest in before as I've had no reason to, there's one immediately obvious crucial difference between him and any of his peers elsewhere in the region which has gone un-remarked not only on here, which is a little disappointing given not just the self-styled but the supposed experts, but in the West.

It's got nothing to do with his youth, recklessness, or ruthlesness, none of which are unusual in the Middle East, but while the rest of his peers and predecessors in the Middle East have nearly all had all or part of their education in the West, from prep school to public, university to military academy, MbS has had none, being raised and educated totally at home in Riyadh, in private Saudi schools and at King Saud University.

While the rest have had exposure to the West, MbS has had virtually none until he took power - even his business dealings were primarily in the Gulf and Africa. Of course he thinks the KSA is the pivot of the world - that's what he's always been taught, always been told, and what he's still being told.

Even after Trump said it was 'serious', he couldn't stop re-inforcing the message that if the West stopped playing with KSA then Russia and China were queueing up to take the West's place.

It's a train wreck waiting to happen, with not just the West failing to understand and send the right messages to the East, but now the East failing to understand the West.

Insight and understanding - zero.
 

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