Saudi Arabia focus of terrorist funding report, but Home Office may not publish report due to...

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by armchair_jihad, Jun 4, 2017.

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  1. An interesting little "key take-aways" from the report, headed out on Guido Fawkes...

    Saudi Arabia "Foremost" in Funding UK Extremism - Guido Fawkes

    Now it does say about a number of foreign governments. However; I for one would be very, very interested in knowning what vetting of Saudi textbooks, for example, used in our country.

    Given the critical lack of linguists (across several mainstream languages - I won't even start on the dialects!), I would be surprised if an independent and critical assessment has been made.

    For as long as I can remember, there has been an alleged practice of bringing on board temporarily convenient people without properly understanding the baggage that they come with.

    Crikey, even the mainstream Arabic textbooks I read have some entertaining dancing around subjects.

    You can read many of them without realising there is a certain country in the Middle East, for example. Or without realising there are Arabic speaking Christians, for example. Most tend to stay off history, except far off and uncontnetious issues.

    So (having been in some backstreets medrassas in my previous job) I do wonder quite what is being taught in those books and the oversight on them.
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  2. I have long argued that the Islamic faith in Britain needs to be Established.
    By that, put under a similar set of legal structures as the C of E.
    No more, no less.Not a persecution, but a regulation.

    No preachers who aren't academically qualified or non English speakers.
    Sermons in English.
    Approved literature.
    Paid clerics.
    Regulated madrassahs.

    At the moment, we are having similar problems to those the Tudors had with Catholic insurgents. There are lessons to be learned from that time.

    I am not advocating hanging, drawing and quartering, but imposing the same controls on Islam as the State requires of Christianity is not discriminatory.
    It would allow the State to shut down and expel the rogues, especially the medieval Salafists imported from back country madrassahs.
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  3. Cant help thinking that Islamic scholars, especially muslim ones, have missed an opportunity to start some reform of their faith by having, in effect, a Mosque of Britain in similar vein to C of E.
    If the more philosophical branches such as Ba'hai could be endorsed within it alongside acceptance and understanding of other faiths and philosophy it would probably gain more than it loses.

    Currently it just seems to divide people (and the world in general) into muslim and non muslim and act like a parallel society wherever it establishes itself. KSA has obviously endorsed this and a blind eye has been turned to it. Despite being agnostic I find some aspects of faiths to be relevant - but the threat of death to unbelievers is not exactly something that any society needs or has asked for.

    On that note I can quite happily say if it doesn't benefit us and we haven't asked for it then get rid of it the same way other objectionable ideologies can be censured.
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  4. Burning at the stake?
  5. They don't want to reform it. By definition, it is perfect.

    What they urgently need to get their heads around is how to adapt the practice of the religion to the modern world, because at the moment, the emphasis is on turning the modern world back into the medieval one to get a better fit with the book.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
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  6. @HectortheInspector - Acknowledged and agree.

    In the oil based world economy that we currently live in, which is finite, KSA and the ME in general have used the proceeds to advance a faith that doesn't stand up to much scrutiny or accept criticism with lightly and with reason.
    I agree with your proposed regulation. It's a problem that is being allowed to happen when it should be controlled in countries that have allowed its import (or contained within its area of origin and let it fail due to its own shortcomings).
  7. Most faiths don't bear close inspection, and outsiders generally look on in confusion.
    The question is not what the guidebook actually says, but what the priests are telling the faithful it says.
    Most religions have priests to explain the faith to the uneducated or the thick.
    (A major issue between Protestantism and the Catholics was the translation of the Bible, and allowing the average bloke in the street to read it without a trained instructor).
    The clergy have the power to selectively promote whichever bits of the book they want, and downplay the other bits.
    This is why they are dangerous.
    Many of the IS footsoldiers are fanatic Muslims, but also incredibly ignorant of the Koran. They have learnt all their religion off the Internet and recorded sermons.
    It should have been stamped on years ago, but that is also part of a wider failure to manage the assimilation of Muslim citizens into British and European culture.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
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  8. I think most people in the Muslim world would welcome some reform in order to reduce the power of the clerics and help modernise. The only people who would pose out are the bullies who profit from it.
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  9. And that, I suspect, is an opportunity that has now sadly passed. Are we looking at a new emerging phase.

    The never far off turmoil in MENA countries produces people who choose to flee further westwards than Turkey and prefer it to KSA etc.
    I doubt the majority of these displaced persons have firm intentions of returning and demand inclusion - frequently on their terms and endorsed by a branch of Islam that doesn't play nicely with others.

    If many of the earlier influxes of muslims who enjoyed and benefitted from western society could have been poised to reintroduce some of those values eastwards I imagine the whole area would benefit from the resulting makeover (a more westernised version of the Muslim Brotherhood?)
    Fair enough, a few dictators, now deposed, didn't make that look likely.

    Basically, a lot of 'west familiar' muslims reinvigorating the middle east would be a better idea than eastern feudal sectarianists becoming more established in the west.
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  10. It's not quite that simple. Whilst previous generations may have been more traditional in their faith, they weren't as forward thinking as the more recent arrivals. Many of whom are very modern and regard the established communities in the UK as too backwards.
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  11. It actually looks like its cribbed from the HJS report going by that, can't be arsed to look at Guido as he's 25% gen, 75% biased frothing at the gusset.

    Again, it's all old stuff. TMPMs comments today are more relevant IMO, they include rather more UK institutions than Guido would like to acknowledge.

    Any back street madrassas need closing PDQ, we shouldn't need new legislation and I doubt anyone would get any sympathy. Having said that, the big red clowns shoes as used in the Trojan Horse case need to left off. That is going to cost the taxpayer.
    The UK Pakistani population could do with looking closely at their Indian sub continent neighbours who are also immigrants. I'm more likely to find an British Indian working alongside me than a British Pakistani or Bangladeshi and it's cock all to do with discrimination.

    Echoing your comments about recent immigrants, one of the dev team in the office is a relatively recent immigrant, top guy and have more time for him than many of my UK colleagues.
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  12. It's not that simple. Many Pakistanis who come over now are amazed, in a bad way, at the established Pakistani community in the UK who seem to be in a downward spiral of drug dealing, low level incest and cash for crash fraud. It wouldn't be tolerated in Pakistan but is here because of softly softly community relations which in reality benefit the people who don't want their little empires challenged.
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  13. 'Everything' isn't that simple but you start somewhere.
  14. Agreed. But it'd take a better politician than any we've seen for a few generations. First of all, we'd have to establish what we wanted the country to look like once problems had been solved.

    It all seems so simple yet so complicated.