Saudi Arabia focus of terrorist funding report, but Home Office may not publish report due to...

#81
Whilst we need oil and gas our foreign policy isn't going to change much in respect of the gulf.
Whilst OPEC is still relatively a major world player, its influence is diminishing (reflected in their recent inability to control world oil prices). Saudi Arabia even more so as it now supplies only about 3-4% of the UK's crude oil requirements (Norway >40%). They hardly feature at all as a supplier of gas.

We are, regrettably, joined at the hip with them in our apparent dependency on their accumulated wealth vis-a-vis defence supply, civil engineering, science & technology etc.

As we have found out, their largesse comes at a considerable cost.
 
#82
#83
Unfortunately, our close links with Islam and Arabs (including the Saudis) goes back a long way. There is an established line of British Arabist adventurers, diplomats, scholars and Arabist fellow travellers including such as St John Philby (Kim Philby's father), Sir Richard Burton and T E Lawrence.

A common thread is public school, latent homosexuality and a predisposition for intrigue and treachery.

We are now enjoying the fruits of their labours.
Are you saying we are b#ggared.
 
#84
Any chance of expanding on that?
Presumably a past history including neoliberal patrons and being too close to the Blair agenda.

Inside the hawks' nest

Personally right now i am just enjoying the shit stirring with them brining out a report whilst Mrs May hopes she'll be out of office before she has to release the report Mr Cameron shafted her with.
 
#85
Presumably a past history including neoliberal patrons and being too close to the Blair agenda.
Inside the hawks' nest Personally right now i am just enjoying the shit stirring with them brining out a report whilst Mrs May hopes she'll be out of office before she has to release the report Mr Cameron shafted her with.
I'm sure you don't feel sorry for her as I do not however she put herself up for it all like so many other closet power hungry pathological narcissists, in which case she can take the heat or F off out kitchen...just like others have including Call me Dave. One wonders how many mornings she has woken up and wished she'd not bothered.
Well, tough titty dear you asked for it.
 
#86
Presumably a past history including neoliberal patrons and being too close to the Blair agenda.

Inside the hawks' nest


Bill Kristol - yes I can see the taintedness that BarcelonaAnalPark (why the username btw?) was alluding to.
Personally right now i am just enjoying the shit stirring with them brining out a report whilst Mrs May hopes she'll be out of office before she has to release the report Mr Cameron shafted her with.
Lets not forget we have the Liberal Democrats to thank for insisting on it as part of signing up to the collation, and of course call me Daves inability to think through the consequences of his actions...
 
#87
If you look at the discourse around the HJS society online you get, rightly or wrongly, an idea around the controversy of the thinktank's foreign connections and financial benefactors which can be seen as relevant when you consider the common themes in the Society's output.

My username is an anagram of my real name and a hat tip to my favourite HME, ammonium nitrate & aluminium powder.
 
#88
Whilst OPEC is still relatively a major world player, its influence is diminishing (reflected in their recent inability to control world oil prices). Saudi Arabia even more so as it now supplies only about 3-4% of the UK's crude oil requirements (Norway >40%). They hardly feature at all as a supplier of gas.

We are, regrettably, joined at the hip with them in our apparent dependency on their accumulated wealth vis-a-vis defence supply, civil engineering, science & technology etc.

As we have found out, their largesse comes at a considerable cost.
KSA are only part of the story, Qatar's quite important for our LNG imports and the UAE invest billions. KSA are the biggest supplier to China which puts our 3-4% in perspective.

You want Brexit and more trade? Guess where it's going to be? We need to grow it quickly as well. Nobody in that neck of the woods takes public criticism well either. If we don't play ball I'm sure France, Israel and China will be happy to do more than they already do.

Anyhoo, how come I have increasingly found the NYT to be covering UK news better than our own press?

Britain Debates Saudis’ Ties to Extremism, With May in an Uneasy Spot

Well worth a read, especially the last four paragraphs.
 
#92
An interesting little "key take-aways" from the report, headed out on Guido Fawkes...

The study examines the ways in which the Saudi and other foreign governments stoke Islamist thought and activities in Britain. It finds that:
  • Saudi Arabia has spent at least £67 billion promoting Wahhabi ideology abroad in the past 30 years;
  • A number of Britain’s most serious Islamist hate preachers sit within the Salafi-Wahhabi ideology” and have studied in Saudi Arabia as part of scholarship programmes, or have been provided with extreme literature and material within the UK itself;
  • In 2014 it was estimated that Britain’s Salafi Mosques had a collective capacity for a 44,994 strong membership;
  • In a minority of cases, institutions in the UK that receive Saudi funding are also run directly from Saudi Arabia;
  • Saudi textbooks are used in a number of the UK’s independent Islamic schools;
  • There have also been “numerous cases of British individuals who have joined Jihadist groups in Iraq and Syria whose radicalisation is thought to link back to foreign funded institutions and preachers“.
Saudi Arabia "Foremost" in Funding UK Extremism - Guido Fawkes

Now it does say about a number of foreign governments. However; I for one would be very, very interested in knowning what vetting of Saudi textbooks, for example, used in our country.

Given the critical lack of linguists (across several mainstream languages - I won't even start on the dialects!), I would be surprised if an independent and critical assessment has been made.

For as long as I can remember, there has been an alleged practice of bringing on board temporarily convenient people without properly understanding the baggage that they come with.

Crikey, even the mainstream Arabic textbooks I read have some entertaining dancing around subjects.

You can read many of them without realising there is a certain country in the Middle East, for example. Or without realising there are Arabic speaking Christians, for example. Most tend to stay off history, except far off and uncontnetious issues.

So (having been in some backstreets medrassas in my previous job) I do wonder quite what is being taught in those books and the oversight on them.
 
#93
I have long argued that the Islamic faith in Britain needs to be Established.
By that, put under a similar set of legal structures as the C of E.
No more, no less.Not a persecution, but a regulation.

No preachers who aren't academically qualified or non English speakers.
Sermons in English.
Approved literature.
Paid clerics.
Regulated madrassahs.
Inspections.

At the moment, we are having similar problems to those the Tudors had with Catholic insurgents. There are lessons to be learned from that time.

I am not advocating hanging, drawing and quartering, but imposing the same controls on Islam as the State requires of Christianity is not discriminatory.
It would allow the State to shut down and expel the rogues, especially the medieval Salafists imported from back country madrassahs.
 
#94
I have long argued that the Islamic faith in Britain needs to be Established.
By that, put under a similar set of legal structures as the C of E.
No more, no less.Not a persecution, but a regulation.

No preachers who aren't academically qualified or non English speakers.
Sermons in English.
Approved literature.
Paid clerics.
Regulated madrassahs.
Inspections.

At the moment, we are having similar problems to those the Tudors had with Catholic insurgents. There are lessons to be learned from that time.

I am not advocating hanging, drawing and quartering, but imposing the same controls on Islam as the State requires of Christianity is not discriminatory.
It would allow the State to shut down and expel the rogues, especially the medieval Salafists imported from back country madrassahs.
Cant help thinking that Islamic scholars, especially muslim ones, have missed an opportunity to start some reform of their faith by having, in effect, a Mosque of Britain in similar vein to C of E.
If the more philosophical branches such as Ba'hai could be endorsed within it alongside acceptance and understanding of other faiths and philosophy it would probably gain more than it loses.

Currently it just seems to divide people (and the world in general) into muslim and non muslim and act like a parallel society wherever it establishes itself. KSA has obviously endorsed this and a blind eye has been turned to it. Despite being agnostic I find some aspects of faiths to be relevant - but the threat of death to unbelievers is not exactly something that any society needs or has asked for.

On that note I can quite happily say if it doesn't benefit us and we haven't asked for it then get rid of it the same way other objectionable ideologies can be censured.
 
#96
Cant help thinking that Islamic scholars, especially muslim ones, have missed an opportunity to start some reform of their faith by having, in effect, a Mosque of Britain in similar vein to C of E.
If the more philosophical branches such as Ba'hai could be endorsed within it alongside acceptance and understanding of other faiths and philosophy it would probably gain more than it loses.

Currently it just seems to divide people (and the world in general) into muslim and non muslim and act like a parallel society wherever it establishes itself. KSA has obviously endorsed this and a blind eye has been turned to it. Despite being agnostic I find some aspects of faiths to be relevant - but the threat of death to unbelievers is not exactly something that any society needs or has asked for.

On that note I can quite happily say if it doesn't benefit us and we haven't asked for it then get rid of it the same way other objectionable ideologies can be censured.
They don't want to reform it. By definition, it is perfect.

What they urgently need to get their heads around is how to adapt the practice of the religion to the modern world, because at the moment, the emphasis is on turning the modern world back into the medieval one to get a better fit with the book.
 
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#97
@HectortheInspector - Acknowledged and agree.

In the oil based world economy that we currently live in, which is finite, KSA and the ME in general have used the proceeds to advance a faith that doesn't stand up to much scrutiny or accept criticism with lightly and with reason.
I agree with your proposed regulation. It's a problem that is being allowed to happen when it should be controlled in countries that have allowed its import (or contained within its area of origin and let it fail due to its own shortcomings).
 
#98
@HectortheInspector - Acknowledged and agree.

In the oil based world economy that we currently live in, which is finite, KSA and the ME in general have used the proceeds to advance a faith that doesn't stand up to much scrutiny or accept criticism with lightly and with reason.
I agree with your proposed regulation. It's a problem that is being allowed to happen when it should be controlled in countries that have allowed its import (or contained within its area of origin and let it fail due to its own shortcomings).
Most faiths don't bear close inspection, and outsiders generally look on in confusion.
The question is not what the guidebook actually says, but what the priests are telling the faithful it says.
Most religions have priests to explain the faith to the uneducated or the thick.
(A major issue between Protestantism and the Catholics was the translation of the Bible, and allowing the average bloke in the street to read it without a trained instructor).
The clergy have the power to selectively promote whichever bits of the book they want, and downplay the other bits.
This is why they are dangerous.
Many of the IS footsoldiers are fanatic Muslims, but also incredibly ignorant of the Koran. They have learnt all their religion off the Internet and recorded sermons.
It should have been stamped on years ago, but that is also part of a wider failure to manage the assimilation of Muslim citizens into British and European culture.
 
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#99
I think most people in the Muslim world would welcome some reform in order to reduce the power of the clerics and help modernise. The only people who would pose out are the bullies who profit from it.
 
And that, I suspect, is an opportunity that has now sadly passed. Are we looking at a new emerging phase.

The never far off turmoil in MENA countries produces people who choose to flee further westwards than Turkey and prefer it to KSA etc.
I doubt the majority of these displaced persons have firm intentions of returning and demand inclusion - frequently on their terms and endorsed by a branch of Islam that doesn't play nicely with others.

If many of the earlier influxes of muslims who enjoyed and benefitted from western society could have been poised to reintroduce some of those values eastwards I imagine the whole area would benefit from the resulting makeover (a more westernised version of the Muslim Brotherhood?)
Fair enough, a few dictators, now deposed, didn't make that look likely.

Basically, a lot of 'west familiar' muslims reinvigorating the middle east would be a better idea than eastern feudal sectarianists becoming more established in the west.
 

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