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SASS Patrol Pack - GENUINE???

#1
HI

Wonder if any of you guys can help me?
Last week i ordered a NI Patrol Pack from Special Air Sea Services in Lancaster. It is advertised in their catalogue as a "PLCE Patrol Pack MkII DPM IRR - Genuine Issue". When I spoke to the guy on the phone to order it i again asked if it was genuie issue which he assured me it was.

When it arrived upon closer look it appears that it may not be infact genuine issue - It does have an NSN number which is 8465-99-869-3875 and when checked with JSP 768 (Defence Clothing) Section 12 (Equipment) it is correct. However, the label it is written on does look a bit suspect with the other information that is written on it such as care instuctions - ( never seen that before on issued kit other than clothing).

Also the Quick Release buckles do not appear to be the issue type as on Issue Assualt Vest (Waistcoat - Mans General Purpose Ops) or on the Infantry or Other Arms Bergen.

I was also under the impression that zips on issue kit is stamped with YKK however these are not.

I have no real issues with the quality of it however, if these are just the obvious differences there could be others regarding the quality of the stiching, IRR etc. My main concern is that i object to paying top doller for something described as Genuine Issue but which may not be and could infact be a cheap copy.

I know SASS is a really good company so i am somewhat confused over the issue.

Sorry about the essay- just felt it is better to include as much information as possible. If anyone could offer any information about points raised or their own issue daysack e.g. NSN Label, buckles etc it would be much appreciated.
 
#2
It is probably one produced by Rangemaster/Britkit direct. SASS seem to source some of their kit from other manufacturers especially the webbing. CQC the designers and producers of the genuine issue kit will attach any label that the original purchaser requires but all their kit uses YKK marked zips and ITW Nexus plastic fasteners. I sell ones direct from CQC for £65 on ebay and havn't had any complaints so far.
Or http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=32981.html
 
#4
I suspect it may have been something like that. I paid £85 and £6 postage from SASS and it does not have the YKK Zips or ITW Nexus Quick Release buckles as on other issued kit. Can anyone comment on the quality of the Britkit ones when compared with the CQC issue ones? Also what would people suggest i do next? Do I keep the one from SASS in the hope that it will perform just as good ( As this would be much less hassle) or try and get a refund and purchase the CQC one from a different supplier. I originally chose SASS as i believed it would be a good quality issue one.
 
#5
Apart from the fastener differences the quality of the stitching and the material does seem to be of similar quality and durability (it does seem to be a bit stiffer) i cannot say whether the IRR qualities are similar but i am sure others on here can give a more definitive answer to that. It is possible that it could have been produced by Rangemaster as a short term UOR to provide kit, so it could be to issue spec, as CQC can take up to ten weeks to produce items.
 
#6
CQC were the original makers of the NI pack. But the MoD do have other contractors. I think all the issue Ni packs have care instructions on the label. As for the buckles there are some very dodgy ones even on issue kit. Those are probably 'Dutch' buckles. A lot of the Seyntex made kit has poorer quality buckles. Standards on issue kit have slipped. I'd be surprised at SASS not selling the genuine article. Why not ask them?
 
#7
My main problem now is that looking on ebay and britkit i have seen what looks like the exact same one as mine with the cheaper buckles for £38.99(Buy It Now Price - ebay) and £54.95 (Britkit Direct) so i am somewhat p1ssed to have paid £85 from SASS. Also a mate of mine has one (Not sure about which type Copy or CQC) But one of the female buckles on the lid snapped and it would be a bit of a pain to replace as its the stiched on one. Also don't want to use it in the field and have it fall apart because the stiching etc is not up to scratch or fine it to light up like a christmas tree through a CWS when on ex.

Sorry if i seem to be nit picking just want the quality for the price i paid.
 
#8
Yeah know what you mean LM. Not been in that long myself but even i have noticed standards have slipped on issued kit. The thing with the label is that it says "CLEAN WITH HAND HOT SOAPY
WATER BY SCRUBBING AND
RINSING WELL WITH CLEAN WATER" underneith the NSN and thought this seemed a bit dodgy as i've never seen it before on bergens or webbing pouches etc.

Not slagging of SASS by way as i know some of their kit (smocks etc) is excellent just a bit confused on this one.

Think i might email them to ask just wanted to get some information about it first.
 
#9
If they say it IS issue kit, but it ISN'T you can send it back.

If you are not happy this is what I would do. £85 is alot if it is not right.

I wouldn't go that much on the label. There are all kinds of labels out there at the moment.
 
#10
The only way to get actual "issue" kit is to get it via your QM or used kit from a surplus store. The kit i sell hasn't been issued as it was not manufactured for an MoD contract and has not passed through the sticky mits of a blanket stacker, but it is to issue standard. as i said before the manufacturers can get labels made up easily enough, i could even get some patrol sacks made up in flourescent pink with tassels if thats your bag :D as long as you want 25 or more, and they would still be made of the correct grade of material and fittings, including IRR, as issue kit.
 
#11
I think I have a daysack from the same contractor mate, the buckles are lower budget and the lining material isn't the normal rubber stuff (just as good though). Apart from that the quality is the same. Got mine through the QM so I'm not fussed at all. Just thought I'd mention that it probably is gen issue.

If you're not happy with it, just phone them up and say so. You ought to be able to return it and get a refund. £85 beer tokens is a lot of dosh to shell out for something that doesn't make the grade.
 
#12
Thanks alot for your replies guys anyway. I have emailed them so am just awaiting a responce. I would probably have liked to send it back but was thinking that with the postage to order it and also to send it back i would probably be £12 - £15 down and back to square one (i.e no daysack) it might just be easier to hang onto it and see what they say.

Sorry RHC I realise only way to get issued kit is through the stores as you correctly said i meant issued spec kit. Thanks again guys.
 
#15
Best case scenario:
SASS are a reputable company. I've bought from them before and been very pleased with service and products. They have a 'No Risk Guarantee' on their front page:
SASS said:
YOU CAN BUY WITH CONFIDENCE. If ever you are not satisfied with a purchase you may return it within 10 days, in original condition, for prompt exchange, adjustment or refund. This guarantee is in addition to your statutory rights.
(So use it, just phone them).


Worse Case Scenario:
Your statutory rights (sale of goods I think its called) include that goods must be as described, of merchantable quality and fit for the purpose they were bought.

If you buy online or over the phone etc. your purchase is also covered by the Distance Selling Regulations. SEE HERE.

You are not bound to pay postage to return items unless the company has said so in their terms and conditions. Unfortunately for you, they have.
SASS said:
IF you are dissatisfied with a purchase, you may return the items within 10 days of receipt. If goods are returned as sent, we will then refund the purchase price, but postage is not refundable.

So, you've lost the postage. Personally I'd be tempted to soldier on, and if it falls apart later then send it for a refund under the sale of goods stuff above.


CF
 
#16
Some interesting stuff their CF, however the patrol pack arrived Thursday 2nd but as i was out of the country and didn't get back until this Thursday i only really had time to check it yesterday.(My fault i know) and therfore the ten days expires tommorow As you said i might just crackl on with it. If it falls apart on ex or buckles snap i'll just see them about possibility of replacement or refund. Seems to be of decent quality anyway just the difference concerned me.
 
#17
SilverShadows said:
HI

Wonder if any of you guys can help me?
Last week i ordered a NI Patrol Pack from Special Air Sea Services in Lancaster. It is advertised in their catalogue as a "PLCE Patrol Pack MkII DPM IRR - Genuine Issue". When I spoke to the guy on the phone to order it i again asked if it was genuie issue which he assured me it was.

When it arrived upon closer look it appears that it may not be infact genuine issue - It does have an NSN number which is 8465-99-869-3875 and when checked with JSP 768 (Defence Clothing) Section 12 (Equipment) it is correct. However, the label it is written on does look a bit suspect with the other information that is written on it such as care instuctions - ( never seen that before on issued kit other than clothing).

Also the Quick Release buckles do not appear to be the issue type as on Issue Assualt Vest (Waistcoat - Mans General Purpose Ops) or on the Infantry or Other Arms Bergen.

I was also under the impression that zips on issue kit is stamped with YKK however these are not.

I have no real issues with the quality of it however, if these are just the obvious differences there could be others regarding the quality of the stiching, IRR etc. My main concern is that i object to paying top doller for something described as Genuine Issue but which may not be and could infact be a cheap copy.

I know SASS is a really good company so i am somewhat confused over the issue.

Sorry about the essay- just felt it is better to include as much information as possible. If anyone could offer any information about points raised or their own issue daysack e.g. NSN Label, buckles etc it would be much appreciated.
Don't fret: I would put money on it being genuine. That NSN is correct, and on the real thing the zips and nexus clips are not, for some reason, marked YKK and ITW NEXUS respectively; I don't know why. They have decided to put care instructions on it too. If you want to be sure and you have it to hand, then look for the NSN label under the lid, and try to clip the nexus buckles to an issue bergen and rifle sling. If they fit well and come off easily, it's genuine.
SASS is a reputable company, so if it does turn out to be gash (and I think it won't) then ring them up and complain.
 

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