SAS - Pathe Newsreel of 15 December 1941

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by _Chimurenga_, Jun 22, 2010.

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  1. _Chimurenga_

    _Chimurenga_ LE Gallery Guru

    Here is something VERY interesting !

    What you are actually seeing is the L Detachment of the original SAS being visited by Auchinleck on 13 November 1941 - just four days before they were to make their first combat jump ( the ill-fated Operation SQUATTER).
  2. That'll be the selection requirement for 3 Para Mortars sorted then :p
  3. In the Book " Lost Voices of the RAF" by Max Arthur , there are pieces by Harry Ward who was one of the first parachutists in the world he started jumpnig in 1925, and was a senior instructor and trained the members of X troop 11th SAS as they were then in Feb 1941, in the raid op collossus,against the tregano viaduct, and Sqn Leader Wally Lashbrook who led the four Whitleys they traveled in to Italy 6 days before operation Squatter
  4. Have you seen on the globe at the end how big UK was in 1941 - no wonder we won the war.
  5. That's very early stuff: head first exits copied off the Fallschirmjaegers. Buggered if I can figure out what those helmetes were tho' - US tank crew hats? And there's some shocking PLF positions in those landing shots - bloke with his knees up to his chin when his heels hit the dirt must have had a sore arrse and bitemarks in his kneecaps for weeks . . . .
  6. _Chimurenga_

    _Chimurenga_ LE Gallery Guru

    They were originally British tank helmets ...
  7. " when I left home to join the WAAF there was a paratrooper from Ringway billited in our house,I'd got quite fond of him, but when I came home on leave, he had gone off on the Tragino raid"

    leading Aircraftwoman Olive Snow

    Parachute packer at Ringway
  8. Farky Nell!! There's a place for that item on BBC1, in "The Genius Of Design"

    . . or not . . more likely . . :D
  9. Thanks Tropper, I wasn't aware of that detail.

    I got to know Harry Ward, when I was a young PJI(19yrs) and very passionate about all things in the parachuting world. I have some late '30's autographed postcards of Harry in his 'Barnstorming' days somewhere in my admin boxes. It was 1968 and Harry would turn up at 'Canopy Club' re-unions, the old boy association of No1 PTS.

    In fairness, Harry was supported by other like minded souls from the 'Barnstorming' world including a Polish instructor - Julian Gleboyles (sp?) as PTS was developing
    I also have what I thought was 'unique' pre op photograph of the 'Collosus' team which Anthony Dean-Drummond had signed. I've seen this print on this web site, so not that unique after all.
  10. tropper66 - ".....and was a senior instructor and trained the members of X troop 11th SAS as they were then in Feb 1941, in the raid op collossus,against the tregano viaduct, and Sqn Leader Wally Lashbrook who led the four Whitleys they traveled in to Italy 6 days before operation Squatter"

    ??? Not altogether sure what being observed here? 11 Special Air Service (aka 11 Special Service Battalion or No.2 Cdo to use the very brief original ‘popular’ title), who provided most of the Tp for the first test OP (Italy), belong to the Parachute Regt. family, not the SAS.

    David Stirling’s N. Africa Para Cdo idea, as an alternate to he and others being absorbed into other Units, was allocated the SAS title as the hierarchy thought it would add credence to an ongoing deception plan that we already had Paras training in N. Africa.

    Stirling recruited men locally independent of the Paras at Ringway.

  11. That looks very like the French tank helmet of the period.

    These are also relevant to the early Paras:

  12. yes you are very right, it's all a bit confusing, but the group led by Dean Drumond were, at the time 10th Februry 1941 SAS, even though not in Stirlings L detachment SAS brigade , Dean Drumond who was Royal Signals, went on to be CO of 22 after the war, it is quite likely that the two units had no knowledge of each others existance at the time due to the confusion of war
  13. Confusion may exist because the first use of 11 SAS was logically given by Whitehall en route to the eventual title of the Parachute Regt., and in no way was establishing what Stirling later formed in N. Africa.

    Churchill may have ordered the formation of the Commandos and supported Dudley Clarke’s suggested term borrowed from his and others Boer experience, but Whitehall, and others in the senior military, objected to both the way the new body was formed and the title.

    You had a situation where ‘Commando’ was the common parlance, but Whitehall documentation was address to ‘Special Service’? It gets worse. In the winter of ’40 there was a rationalisation and restructure of the growing number of forces becoming involved with the new ‘Specials’ movement. There were now to be five SS ‘Battalions’, with each comprising two SS Units/Cdos, still working around the original concept of ten Cdos. No.2 – intended to be 500 Paras but quickly revised to 5000 – was identified outside these ‘Battalions’ and named 11 Special Service Battalion, plus, to signify their para role as distinct from infantry, ‘Air’ was added to the title giving 11 Special Air Service Battalion. The Tp selected for the test raid were known as X Troop, no L Detachment.

    Within a year, Dudley Clarke – who drew-up the original ‘Commando’ blueprint Churchill accepted, and was subsequently tasked with forming the embryo of Combined Operations – found himself progressively sidelined by the hierarchy for more established ‘good ‘ole boys’. However, his talents were requested by Archi Wavell in N. Africa to head a new deception organisation know as A Force.

    One deception conceived was to convince the enemy we had paratroops in N. Africa, and such as drops with scale dummies were made where they could be observed and reported on. When Stirling (No.8 Cdo) had his plan for parachute raiders approved, HQ told him they were to be known as the Special Air Service as the enemy would have been well aware of Britain’s developing Para capability, and, it would add credence to A Force’s deception that we had Paras in N. Africa. With Stirling’s Units being about 60 strong, L Detachment was added for the benefit of spys. Stirling’s formation however, was independent of Ringway.

  14. _Chimurenga_

    _Chimurenga_ LE Gallery Guru

    The book 'SAS Zero Hour' by Tim Jones (from whence I got the mention of the Pathé newsreel footage) clears up all the details of L Detachment's pre-history in mind numbing detail as well as debunking some of the Regiment's creation myths.
  15. @ _Chimurenga_

    Good footage all the same.