SAS man told his penknife must go.....

#1
......so reads a headline on page 2 of todays Torygraph!

"An SAS soldier was ordered to surrender his penknife before boarding an RAF flight to Afghanistan, despite being allowed to keep his gun.

The father of the soldier now serving in the south of the country, said his son had to give up the knife at RAF Brize Norton, which follows civil aviation rules. 'They confisticated his penknife but ignored the gun. It seems a strange set of priorities.'"
 
#4
This will probably open a floodgate of hate for the RAFP as virtually every soldier in the Army has had a knife of some sort confiscated at the airhead. The latest excperience I had of this was a Snowdrop telling me that, although the CAA regulations had been relaxed and allowed the carriage of blades in hold luggage a lock bladed knife (except, surprisigly a Leatherman type tool) was an offensive weapon and these were still being confiscated as (wait for it) "we wouldn't want the police to stop your vehicle in the UK, search it and find an offensive weapon". Ah! I can see it now: the minibus full of blokes in DPM and carrying a mix of assorted weaponry is stopped by the local plod who anounces that, having stopped us as we have defective break light he now has reason to search us for illegal weapons. Would we please lift the Minimi, the assorted rifles and pistols out of the way on th e off-chance that they are hiding a Gerber.....
Jump the scenario to Afghanistan and we encounter the hooligan mentioned here who, instead of using a penknife to undo a string-wrapped package for a local resorts to flourishing a bayonet in his or her face..... hearts and minds anyone?
This is patently absurd (The situation, not the scenarios I've used.) If I've got it right, the law on lock-blades and knives generally is that they can be carried about your person if it is reasonable that they can be taken to be tools of your trade. A knife on a belt is as much a tool of a soldier's trade as a Stanley knife is to a carpet layer's . Here the law is not an ass, but the interpretation and application of it by the Service police patently is.
 
#7
To see if anything is being smuggled in the wrap along with the rifle - as has been attempted a number of times in the past.

You just let us do the thinking and calm down.
 
#9
Thing is, they don't even abide by their own rules. Had the "pleasure" of travelling Crab Air back from the US last week and because of the lack of X-ray facilities at our point of departure, all 140-odd of us had our hand baggage searched for potentially deadly nail clippers by a couple of Snowdrops. Got on the aircraft to find that every single one of the UKMAMS jokers (of whom there were very many - can't let an opportunity to do the Xmas shopping in a PX pass them by) were carrying Leathermans. Thus their (the whole RAF AT set-up, not just the RAFP) reputation as a bunch of incompetent and unprofessional clowns was instantly reinforced.
 
#10
This subject has come up before, but I just can't help myself. It is after all the Crabs.

Rickshaw is of course right on the money. It is not so much the rule, although simply transcribing CAA rules to the Armed Forces seems a little bone, it is the lack of interpretation that leaves you scratching your head. For the rule makers and those who police the rules I simply ask the number of occassions a sereviceman deploying by crab-air to operations has ever used his weapons to threaten the crew or passengers of the aircraft? I have other questions.

Are there different rules for different aircraft?
Are you allowed to fly with weapons in a loaded condition?
What about in theatre in helos?
If allowed to fly in some situations with weapons loaded how is this considered a lower threat than carrying a knife with a folding blade?
Where troops are being parachuted into an operation (and there is no luggage hold) are they still not allowed to carry a very useful pen knife with folding blade?
Why is a knife with a folding blade considered a threat but we can carry a bayonet on our webbing.
Do aircrew not carry a knife in their survival kit?
Considering that fighting soldiers (as opposed to crabs living comfortably) live a minimalist existence in the field why is there a deliberate attempt to make doing our job harder by imposing stupid rules?
Finally, do any of our enemies have to put up with similar limitations? "Excuse me brother Muhammed but you will not be allowed to carry that simitar onto the flight as it is strictly against Allah's will".

The role of the Infantry is to seek out and close with the enemy, to kill or capture him, to seize and hold ground, by day or night in any season weather or terrain. (But only using the tools the crabs will allow you to use.)
 
#11
I know that the RAFP scan this site once in a while (and I will not make any jokes about it being easy to scan but hard for them to read. So too, please, all others as we really want one of the dear souls to explain in simple, unequivocal terms the rationale behind something that hacks us off) and invite any one of them to post a response.
 
#12
I once flew to NI on a Herc with an Irish Guards Officer who had a rifle in one hand and a Blackthorn walking stick in the other. The RAF be11ends told him the stick was an offensive weapon and it was wrapped in plastic and handed to the aircrew.

And while we're on the subject, how come movers are so conscientious when it comes to confiscating tweezers, but when you turn up at S Cerney (11 hrs early) as part of a Brigade move, they're never ready, nothing works, and it's as if they weren't expecting you.

I have been on a civair flight with an infantry company with full weapon scales, and we turned up two hours before departure, were given free drinks and arrived happy and relaxed a few hours later. When I recently deployed Crab Air somewhere were absolutely f*cked when we eventually got there over 24hrs after leaving barracks. How come these people haven't been cut yet? Get rid of them all, that's what I say.
 
#13
The reason for taking the knife must be because they think we are going to hijack the aircraft. RAF Police = complete tossers. I have had to deal with these idiots for years and they are out of control morons of the first order. Why the RAF let these guys get away with with their job worth's attitude god only knows - oh yes, I keep forgetting, RAF = civies in uniform.

Rant over.
 
#14
I'll see what I can answer off the top of my head here:


Birdie_Numnums said:
Are there different rules for different aircraft?

YES

Are you allowed to fly with weapons in a loaded condition?

DEPENDS

What about in theatre in helos?

THEY ARE SOME OF THOSE DIFFERENT AIRCRAFT

If allowed to fly in some situations with weapons loaded how is this considered a lower threat than carrying a knife with a folding blade?

DIFFERENT RULES AT DIFFERENT TIMES

Where troops are being parachuted into an operation (and there is no luggage hold) are they still not allowed to carry a very useful pen knife with folding blade?

PART OF THE DIFFERENT RULES

Why is a knife with a folding blade considered a threat but we can carry a bayonet on our webbing.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THIS ONE - IMHO THE BAYONET SHOULD NOT BE PERMITTED EITHER.

Do aircrew not carry a knife in their survival kit?

THEY DON'T CARRY THE SURVIVAL KIT ON THEM

Considering that fighting soldiers (as opposed to crabs living comfortably) live a minimalist existence in the field why is there a deliberate attempt to make doing our job harder by imposing stupid rules?

NOT OUR RULES MATE

Finally, do any of our enemies have to put up with similar limitations? "Excuse me brother Muhammed but you will not be allowed to carry that simitar onto the flight as it is strictly against Allah's will".

WHO CARES? THEY SEEM TO CURRENTLY PREFER CAR BOMBS & SUICUDE AS OPPOSED TO OUR WEAPONS OF CHOICE

The role of the Infantry is to seek out and close with the enemy, to kill or capture him, to seize and hold ground, by day or night in any season weather or terrain. (But only using the tools the crabs will allow you to use.)
Aircraft can be declared cartain things at certain times. If they are not, and they are carrying passengers, then they MUST come under CAA rules - exactly the same as any other passenger-carrying aircraft. This is international law and can, if not followed, lead to a massive, international world of poo. We MUST follow those regulations to be permitted to fly around. Simple. Hope this helps.

Deadshag. Do you really think that the guys who front up Movements operations have the control over the aircraft and do this to upset you personally? Please tell me you are just whining like a girl with a skinned knee for another reason? We have a shrinking and aged AT fleet and we're doing more than ever with it. If someone needs it more than you, it will be diverted. Someone way above our paybands (jointly) decides taskings. :roll:
 
#15
I think you are being unfair.

It is common knowledge that members of the Army are all potential terrorists and hijackers, especially when they are on military flights and that by removing a penknife from a member of the Special Air Service, you are effectivley ensuring that he would have no chance whatsoever of overpowering the effeminate RAF crew.

Think outside the box gents, you wouldn't think it was quite so funny when 22's RSM hijacks a Tiger Moth and flies it into the Taj Mahal would you? Eh? Eh?
 
#16
The RAFP are a bunch of Bellwhiffs. We used to have fun with them at Wildenrath with the old "hand over your ID Card for inspection" mularkey. We were oviously told NEVER to hand over your ID card, and a coupl of times I was dragged through a Taxi window with the ID Card in the middle, Snowdrop on the outside and me and mates inside the Taxi. You know the old joke "What's the difference between Adolf Hitler and a Snowdrop"? "Adolf was a substantive Cpl"
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#18
Mr_C_Hinecap said:
Aircraft can be declared cartain things at certain times. If they are not, and they are carrying passengers, then they MUST come under CAA rules - exactly the same as any other passenger-carrying aircraft. This is international law and can, if not followed, lead to a massive, international world of poo. We MUST follow those regulations to be permitted to fly around. Simple. Hope this helps.
I agree with you up to a point, even if you do walk sideways, nevertheless I really don't understand the business about removing knives and so forth from hold baggage where they aren't accessible during the flight and, so far as I'm aware, don't contravene any national regulations. It should not be beyond the wit of the CAA or RAFP to see that knives and other cutting tools are tools of a soldier's trade and do not represent an offensive weapon or a threat. To extend this, if the RAF transported the British Fencing or Modern Pentathlon teams, would they confiscate their swords?
 
#19
This sounds about as Daft as the 5 year old kid who had his Action Man M16 with its M203 Grenade Launcher (plastic and all of 2" in length!) confiscated before boarding a plane with his Mother shortly after Sept 11th!!!!!
 
#20
the_guru said:
The RAFP are a bunch of Bellwhiffs. We used to have fun with them at Wildenrath with the old "hand over your ID Card for inspection" mularkey. We were oviously told NEVER to hand over your ID card, and a coupl of times I was dragged through a Taxi window with the ID Card in the middle, Snowdrop on the outside and me and mates inside the Taxi. You know the old joke "What's the difference between Adolf Hitler and a Snowdrop"? "Adolf was a substantive Cpl"
Funny you should mention Snowdrops at Wildenrath the_Guru, my Unit used to come across once a year much to the dismay of the entire camp :lol: they used to jail us for stupid things like sleeping on the roundabout half way between the Malcolm Club and our Accomodation, for eating Signallers and Crabs' Pint glasses after drinking the contents and for simply 'borrowing' the odd pads brats' 4 wheeler left outside, when unable to continue any further on foot! and the silliest of all, they actually jailed 2 of the lads for walking around camp sporting just one eyebrow between them...Strange but true!
 

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