Sarkozy: US missile shield wont help security

#1
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081114...ia_missiles;_ylt=AuBQ17.otcK6xsj1Teoqgshw24cA

French President Nicolas Sarkozy undercut the American rationale for a U.S. missile shield in Eastern Europe on Friday by saying that the system would do nothing to improve European security.

Sarkozy's comments were the strongest to date by an American ally against the missile-defense plans, which have infuriated Russia despite the Bush administration's insistence that they are aimed at protecting Europe from Iran.

"Deployment of a missile defense system would bring nothing to security in Europe ... it would complicate things, and would make them move backward," Sarkozy said after a summit with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev. Medvedev smiled and pointed his finger at Sarkozy in approval after the comments from the French president.
Sometimes I have strange feeling that... no it is impossible of course... Though what if mr.Sarkozy is Russian agent?

Let's recall recent war in Georgia. French president with Russian one forged so called plan that was entirely in Russian interests.

Interesting who is Russian agent among leading British politicians? Or at least could be?
 
#2
It hurts me to say it, but he may well be right.

It is possible that President-Elect Obama will turn out not to be one hundred per cent behind the 'Shaved-Chimp's' ideas concerning 'World Peace'.
 
#4
If France wants Russia & the US to end the missile fued, how about Russia stop frog marching Iran towards Nuclear ICBMs, blocking & obfuscating all international attempts to resolve the issue?

Any takers...?
 
#5
KGB_resident said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081114/ap_on_re_eu/eu_eu_russia_missiles;_ylt=AuBQ17.otcK6xsj1Teoqgshw24cA

French President Nicolas Sarkozy undercut the American rationale for a U.S. missile shield in Eastern Europe on Friday by saying that the system would do nothing to improve European security.
Though what if mr.Sarkozy is Russian agent?

?
And that's how the same event was presented in US: "Medvedev, With a Nudge From Sarkozy, Backs Off Missile Threat " (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/world/europe/15europe.html?ref=world)

Looks like mr.Sarkozy is a "US agent"! :D
 

mercurydancer

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
I do like Sarkozy.

but I couldnt be trusted with his wife, a bottle of champagne and some rohypnol.
 

mercurydancer

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
Sergey
Interesting who is Russian agent among leading British politicians? Or at least could be?

We dont have any leading politicians. I wish we did.

As for agents in the cold war George Smiley type. None. None whatsoever. Russian oligarchs sending a couple of cute boys towards a notably corrupt politician and possibly some nice words towards a Tory politician who is trying to be corrupt... very possibly. Sergey.... are you saying that this is the same thing??? that they have been hooked by GRU equivalents???
 
#8
KGB_resident said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081114/ap_on_re_eu/eu_eu_russia_missiles;_ylt=AuBQ17.otcK6xsj1Teoqgshw24cA

1) French President Nicolas Sarkozy undercut the American rationale for a U.S. missile shield in Eastern Europe on Friday by saying that the system would do nothing to improve European security.

2) Nicolas Sarkozy also warned Russian President Dmitry Medvedev against upping tensions by deploying missiles on the borders of the European Union in response to the U.S. planned missile defense system.

3) Sarkozy's comments were the strongest to date by an American ally against the missile-defense plans, which have infuriated Russia despite the Bush administration's insistence that they are aimed at protecting Europe from Iran.

4) The plans for using sites in Poland and the Czech Republic have infuriated Russia despite the Bush administration's insistence that they are aimed at protecting Europe from Iran.

5) "Deployment of a missile defense system would bring nothing to security in Europe ... it would complicate things, and would make them move backward," Sarkozy said after a summit with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev. Medvedev smiled and pointed his finger at Sarkozy in approval after the comments from the French president.
Sometimes I have strange feeling that... no it is impossible of course... Though what if mr.Sarkozy is Russian agent?

Let's recall recent war in Georgia. French president with Russian one forged so called plan that was entirely in Russian interests.

Interesting who is Russian agent among leading British politicians? Or at least could be?
How strange KGB_resident, you seem to have deleted the second and fourth paragraphs from the Yahoo report. I have added them above in italics and bold.

When you add these two paragraphs, you will see, that in paragraph 5, he is actually speaking about the Russian Iskander-M missiles. See here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7729371.stm If Medvedev smiled and wagged his finger in joy, I suspect he should hire another interpreter. From the BBC link:
"I told President Medvedev how much we are concerned about his declaration [on missiles] and how there should be no deployment in any enclave as long as we have not discussed the new conditions of pan-European security," he said.
I know some ARRSE posters are too lazy to check links and do some background research, but this was a VERY poor attempt to mislead people Sergey. You really do better.
 
#9
In hindsight, it looks like the AP writer has made up half her story. Sadly KGB_resident, you fell for it...

He's the official Kremlin verson of events:
Sarkozy offers talks before Russia deploys missiles near Poland

NICE, November 14 (RIA Novosti) - French President Nicolas Sarkozy proposed on Friday holding a meeting on European security involving Russia and the United States before Moscow deploys missiles near Poland.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said last week Moscow would deploy Iskander missile systems in Kaliningrad, sandwiched between NATO members Lithuania and Poland, in response to Washington's missile defense plans for Poland and the Czech Republic.

Speaking at a joint news conference with Medvedev after a Russia-EU summit, Sarkozy said: "We said how concerned we are. We must do everything possible to avoid this deployment until all aspects of European security have been agreed."

Sarkozy said Medvedev had backed his proposal, and talks within the framework of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe [OSCE] could take place in June or July 2009.

Medvedev said all countries should refrain from unilateral moves threatening security until a new agreement on pan-European security has been signed.

"Until a major agreement on European security is signed, we must all avoid unilateral steps that could affect security," Medvedev said adding that his Iskander proposals were a forced reaction to decisions made by "individual European countries."

The U.S. has reached deals with Warsaw and Prague to deploy 10 interceptor missiles and a radar on their territories respectively, saying they are needed to counter possible strikes from "rogue" states. The agreements are still to be ratified by the two countries' parliaments.

Russia has fiercely opposed the plans, saying they threaten its national security.
and
EU-Russia tensions ease?
Russia Today 14 November

The conflict in South Ossetia may have driven a wedge between Russia and the EU, but now the two sides are talking to each other again. At the Russia-EU summit in Nice, Dmitry Medvedev, the French President and the EU Commission President agreed to meet again next year to hammer out a pan-European plan on security.

To watch the full version of Medvedev-Sarkozy-Barroso joint news conference, please follow the link.

Earlier, President Medvedev put forward the idea of a new system for European security. The idea has been supported by some EU leaders and today it was agreed to set a time framework for a special summit to discuss the idea.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy, whose country holds the EU’s rotating presidency, said he was “concerned about his [Medveded’s] statements concerning the possible deployment of Iskander missiles".

“We feel there should be no deployment until we've discussed new geo-political terms and conditions for pan-European security.”
Not even your own propaganda is trying to sell this as an anti-US position...
 
#10
Sergey old friend,
I understand Russia's concern's about being surrounded bu 'Unfriendly powers' but The Euro zone is No Nazi Germany, far from it.
However look east, China is populating other nations territories it desires. Their lies your Military Threat Not the decadent west.
john
 
#11
jonwilly said:
Sergey old friend,
I understand Russia's concern's about being surrounded bu 'Unfriendly powers' but The Euro zone is No Nazi Germany, far from it.
However look east, China is populating other nations territories it desires. Their lies your Military Threat Not the decadent west.
john
It's not Europe that botheres Russia, but the US in Europe and Caspian region. Competition.
 
#14
The French are just being French and following there own interests and not those anyone else. US ABM system in Europe is viewed by French as compititon that would reduce there leverage over eastern europe. They have a desire to give eastern europe only one aceptable choice in all future events that choice being falling in line with a EU dominated by a French/German alliance. If the French can suck up to Russia while pursueing there own goals it will do so. If sucking up to the US help them then they will do that as well. Every country besides Germany needs to just understand that if it comes down to it the French wont think twice about selling themout if benefits to France are high enough.
 
#15
whitecity said:
KGB_resident said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081114/ap_on_re_eu/eu_eu_russia_missiles;_ylt=AuBQ17.otcK6xsj1Teoqgshw24cA

1) French President Nicolas Sarkozy undercut the American rationale for a U.S. missile shield in Eastern Europe on Friday by saying that the system would do nothing to improve European security.

2) Nicolas Sarkozy also warned Russian President Dmitry Medvedev against upping tensions by deploying missiles on the borders of the European Union in response to the U.S. planned missile defense system.

3) Sarkozy's comments were the strongest to date by an American ally against the missile-defense plans, which have infuriated Russia despite the Bush administration's insistence that they are aimed at protecting Europe from Iran.

4) The plans for using sites in Poland and the Czech Republic have infuriated Russia despite the Bush administration's insistence that they are aimed at protecting Europe from Iran.

5) "Deployment of a missile defense system would bring nothing to security in Europe ... it would complicate things, and would make them move backward," Sarkozy said after a summit with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev. Medvedev smiled and pointed his finger at Sarkozy in approval after the comments from the French president.
Sometimes I have strange feeling that... no it is impossible of course... Though what if mr.Sarkozy is Russian agent?

Let's recall recent war in Georgia. French president with Russian one forged so called plan that was entirely in Russian interests.

Interesting who is Russian agent among leading British politicians? Or at least could be?
How strange KGB_resident, you seem to have deleted the second and fourth paragraphs from the Yahoo report. I have added them above in italics and bold.

When you add these two paragraphs, you will see, that in paragraph 5, he is actually speaking about the Russian Iskander-M missiles. See here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7729371.stm If Medvedev smiled and wagged his finger in joy, I suspect he should hire another interpreter. From the BBC link:
"I told President Medvedev how much we are concerned about his declaration [on missiles] and how there should be no deployment in any enclave as long as we have not discussed the new conditions of pan-European security," he said.
I know some ARRSE posters are too lazy to check links and do some background research, but this was a VERY poor attempt to mislead people Sergey. You really do better.
Dezinformacija :twisted: In the finest traditions of the Komitet 8)

Dobro jutro Sergey :D
 
#16
That missile shield is just some lame dick waving covering a juicy bit of defense spend pork for the boys back home. It's a strategic white elephant. The Kremlin knows this. It's also great propaganda gift to belligerent Russki nationalists.

BO faces a huge deficit and has a crazed tax cutting domestic agenda that will push the country even deeper into hock. The plethora of Pentagon funded boondoggles are an obvious candidate for "Change"; this one looks vulnerable. If he pulls the plug Vlad will just have to find something else to huff and puff about to little Nicky. That's about the height of it.
 
#17
Well, let's investigate the issue carefully.

This source is proposed by our friend Domovoy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/world/europe/15europe.html?_r=1&ref=world)&oref=slogin

NYT said:
President Dmitri A. Medvedev of Russia retreated Friday from his threat to deploy missiles on Europe’s borders, but only if President-elect Barack Obama joined Russia and France in calling for a conference on European security by next summer.
Now let's look at what pres.Medvedev really has said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081113/ts_nm/us_russia_medvedev_1

"But we are ready to abandon this decision to deploy the missiles in Kaliningrad if the new American administration, after analyzing the real usefulness of a system to respond to 'rogue states', decides to abandon its anti-missile system," he said.
Do you feel the difference? The condition proposed by pres.Medvedev is quite clear: don't deply your missiles and we will not deploy our ones. From what finger NYT has sucked this absurd condition - US participation in conference on European security?

Btw, it is a typical method of black propaganda - presentation of news without direct quote to distort them.

Let's follow NYT article further.

NYT said:
At a meeting in Nice hosted by President Nicolas Sarkozy of France, Mr. Medvedev backed away from the bellicose speech he gave last week, just hours after Mr. Obama won the United States presidential election. On Friday, the Russian leader argued instead that all countries “should refrain from unilateral steps” before discussions on European security next summer.
Absurd. Position expressed by pres.Medvedev remained unchanged. It was simply repeated and clarified. And note, again we don't see direct quotes.

NYT said:
Mr. Sarkozy, who presided over the meeting between Russia and the 27 European Union nations in his capacity as the union’s president, helped ease the way for Mr. Medvedev’s retreat. The French leader supported the idea of talks on a new security architecture for Europe and suggested that they could be held by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe in June or July.
What 'retreat' NYT does speak about?

NYT said:
Mr. Sarkozy made clear that he wants the United States to think again about the missile defense systems that it plans to build in Poland and the Czech Republic. Mr. Medvedev last week threatened to respond by stationing missiles in Kaliningrad, a Russian enclave bordering Poland and Lithuania, both of which are members of NATO and the European Union.
So from point of view of NYT pres.Sarkozy simply proposed US to think again. And again we don't see direct quotes.

So what pres.Sarkozy really has said? Let's scrutinize his words and let's not pay much attention to finger suckers from NYT and some other mass media that propose their own interpretation not backed by quotes.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/14/france-russia-us-missiles-condemnation

French and Russian presidents condemn US missile plans
...
"Deployment of a missile defence system would bring nothing to security in Europe, it would complicate things," said the French leader who currently chairs the EU.
I guess it is quite clear statement.

The pro-Russian rhetoric from Sarkozy contrasted strongly with Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, who went to the Baltic yesterday and delivered seering criticism of the Kremlin, while pushing for Ukraine to be put on a path to Nato membership, a development that would be a virtual casus belli for the Kremlin.
Indeed some statements made by pres.Sarkozy are strongly pro-Russian and anti-American. For example

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/241683,sarkozy-defends-georgia-diplomacy--summary.html

"If you consider the strategy of some of the 'friends of Georgia' and the strategy of the EU, the EU one is far the better," he said.

"Agitation in the sea close to the conflict, with trouble threatened by certain military vessels, and an anti-missile shield won't be to the benefit of Europe, Russia or anyone else," he said in a swipe at the deployment of US ships to the Black Sea during the August war and US plans to deploy a missile shield in Central Europe.
 
#19
parapauk said:
Domovoy said:
In-Limbo said:
Errr... Europe 1st World, Russia 2nd World.

Competition? Don't delude thyself...
:D Don't delude yourself.
It would be a slightly more impressive comeback if the average Russian man could expect to see his 60th birthday.
You do love sensationalism! :D

parapauk, yes, Russians have big problems and they know it. I'm surprised they didn't become extinct after 1990th experiment with "democracy". Don't worry, I'm sure if they survived then, they will pull through now.
 
#20
jonwilly said:
Sergey old friend,
I understand Russia's concern's about being surrounded bu 'Unfriendly powers' but The Euro zone is No Nazi Germany, far from it.
Mate, it is not question of Eurozone, it is not question of expanding of the EU. If tomorrow the EU accepts Georgia and Ukraine then I would not see any problems. Moreover, myself I wish and expect more and more close co-operation between Russia and the EU. Likely it would not be full membership but rather a big complex of special agreements (mutually profitable).

Eastern Europe, post-Soviet countries are a field of geo-politicl battle between Russia and the USA. Btw, recent war in Georgia is a part of the battle.

The US deploys the Radar in Czech republic and the missiles in Poland. Why do you think the Radar is not planned to be deployed in Poland as well? It would be easier to reach an agreement because only one government and one parliament have to approve the agreement.

The answer is simple. Our American friends wish place their boots firmer in both countries. No matter that the anti-missiles are not proven to be effective. imaginary 'threat' from Iran and :eek: N.Korea is no more than a fantasy.

As for proposed membership of Ukraine in NATO then it seriously hurts Russian interest for degree that too few in the West are able to understand.

jonwilly said:
However look east, China is populating other nations territories it desires. Their lies your Military Threat Not the decadent west.
john
Dear John, China is a potential threat that is too far from becoming hot. I don't expect any war on Russo-Chinese border anytime soon. By contrast, Russian soldiers were killed by army of the country that is quite near NATO membership.

Could Lithuania or/and Poland enter its troops into Kaliningrad enclave and divide the territory? Just now - no. But is it absolutely impossible even theoretically? Lithuania calls Kaliningrad area as 'little Luthuania'. Suppose that Kaliningrad area is voided Russian troops, missiles and Polish and/or Lithuanian troops capture the area. What side would be NATO on? Would it support its own members or Russia?

Now let's look at American missiles more closely. They wil be deployed quite near Kaliningrad enclave and no doubt the Americans will deploy some troops 'to defend the missiles' of course 'from terrorists'. So should Russia be concerned with own security?
 

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