Sarkozy survives vote over Nato

#4
slopsjon said:
There was a time when Nato aircraft weren't even allowed to fly over French airspace.
Source ? NATO, and particularly US aircrafts (KC-135s and U2s) have used French bases regularly for decades, including for combat Ops in the Balkans.

If you are thinking about the 1986 bombing of Libya, the US aircrafts were denied the right to overfly France during Op Eldorado Canyon because the request had been put up while the bombed-up US airplanes were already in flight and approaching the French airspace.

In short, the answer was taken for granted and then Pdt Mitterand was not the sort of man to accept being taken for a poodle. So they had to go around the french airspace, just like they had to go around Spain and Italy, two other countries that had denied the overflight rights.

For your info and for the picture to be complete, the then italian Prime Minister Bettino Craxi and the Maltese PM both phoned Gaddaffi to warn him of the impending air raid which gave Gaddaffi time to hide while France was supportive of the american action which is not surprising considering France has fought and bombed Libya more often in the past three decades than any other country in the world.
 
#5
fantassin said:
slopsjon said:
There was a time when Nato aircraft weren't even allowed to fly over French airspace.
Source ? NATO, and particularly US aircrafts (KC-135s and U2s) have used French bases regularly for decades, including for combat Ops in the Balkans.

If you are thinking about the 1986 bombing of Libya, the US aircrafts were denied the right to overfly France during Op Eldorado Canyon because the request had been put up while the bombed-up US airplanes were already in flight and approaching the French airspace.

In short, the answer was taken for granted and then Pdt Mitterand was not the sort of man to accept being taken for a poodle. So they had to go around the french airspace, just like they had to go around Spain and Italy, two other countries that had denied the overflight rights.

For your info and for the picture to be complete, the then italian Prime Minister Bettino Craxi and the Maltese PM both phoned Gaddaffi to warn him of the impending air raid which gave Gaddaffi time to hide while France was supportive of the american action which is not surprising considering France has fought and bombed Libya more often in the past three decades than any other country in the world.
'Even the ones in the graveyard?' Remember that retort? Hmm I wonder what DeCnut had said to get that response...
 
#6
fantassin said:
slopsjon said:
There was a time when Nato aircraft weren't even allowed to fly over French airspace.
Source ? NATO, and particularly US aircrafts (KC-135s and U2s) have used French bases regularly for decades, including for combat Ops in the Balkans.

If you are thinking about the 1986 bombing of Libya, the US aircrafts were denied the right to overfly France during Op Eldorado Canyon because the request had been put up while the bombed-up US airplanes were already in flight and approaching the French airspace.

In short, the answer was taken for granted and then Pdt Mitterand was not the sort of man to accept being taken for a poodle. So they had to go around the french airspace, just like they had to go around Spain and Italy, two other countries that had denied the overflight rights.

For your info and for the picture to be complete, the then italian Prime Minister Bettino Craxi and the Maltese PM both phoned Gaddaffi to warn him of the impending air raid which gave Gaddaffi time to hide while France was supportive of the american action which is not surprising considering France has fought and bombed Libya more often in the past three decades than any other country in the world.
In the 80's I was flying to Kenya and we was told we had to fly down to Spain to cross over to Cyprus because the Herc was designated a Nato aircraft and wasn't allowed to fly over French airspace.

When I went on exercise Cursader none of that envolved us travelling through France.
 
#7
I supposed it was the easy answer to blame it on the French but since France never left NATO (only the integrated command structure) I can't see how NATO planes could have been forbiden to overfly french territory.
 
#8
fantassin said:
slopsjon said:
There was a time when Nato aircraft weren't even allowed to fly over French airspace.
Source ? NATO, and particularly US aircrafts (KC-135s and U2s) have used French bases regularly for decades, including for combat Ops in the Balkans.

If you are thinking about the 1986 bombing of Libya, the US aircrafts were denied the right to overfly France during Op Eldorado Canyon because the request had been put up while the bombed-up US airplanes were already in flight and approaching the French airspace.

In short, the answer was taken for granted and then Pdt Mitterand was not the sort of man to accept being taken for a poodle. So they had to go around the french airspace, just like they had to go around Spain and Italy, two other countries that had denied the overflight rights.

For your info and for the picture to be complete, the then italian Prime Minister Bettino Craxi and the Maltese PM both phoned Gaddaffi to warn him of the impending air raid which gave Gaddaffi time to hide while France was supportive of the american action which is not surprising considering France has fought and bombed Libya more often in the past three decades than any other country in the world.
You are right Fantassin, however the unofficial rules made it very easy for French military aircraft to return to French airspace without such minor details as a flight plan. Woe betide any other military aircraft attempting to do the same. Ils ne passeront? (apologise for mong French spelling :D )
 
#10
Oh, and the frogs don't recognise the SBAs in Cyprus - unless of course French nationals need picking up from Akrotiri having scarpered from Lebanon.....

I actually wish we were more like the French - having your gateau, eating it, and tying up your neighbours in useless European bureaucracy......
 
#11
Indeed we can all learn a lesson in 'Running away, surrendering then claiming glory when your country has to be liberated by several other nations'.

Cnuts all of 'em.
 
#14
There is no hidden agenda.

France's financial contribution to NATO is the 3rd or 4th highest and its troop contribution is about the same.

For all its investment it only gets 2 "stars" in the command structure and it has no say in the strategic decisions.

Why should countries like Italy or Spain that contribute less both in money and manpower than France crowd all the NATO HQs while France gets nothing ?

France only wants return on its investment and the initial answer by the USA is apparently enthusiastic with more positions being offered than France hoped for .

Be prepared to see a number of general slots given to France (or on a rotational basis) once the NATO PE review is over and be also prepared to see all those that were criticizing France for supposedly being "out" now criticizing it for coming back "in".
 

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