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SAR to be cut by 50%?

#2
Yes, because the contract is for availability, not for airframes. PPRUNE is quoting about a 1/4 of the downtime required between a civ-maintained helicopter and a military one.

Add into that the fact the blokes are paid to maintain and fly helicopters, not be DOs, Mess Reps, Affiliation Officers, Officers of the Day, Duty Senior Rate, Duty JR for the base etc etc, means they don't need to over-man the 'squadrons'.

It's a paradigm the Military should be very interesting in reviewing.

Bristows to take over SAR from 2015 - PPRuNe Forums - if you want to have a look.
 
B

bokkatankie

Guest
#3
But what of the Duke and his career? Katie will have to be a washer women or something.
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#5
I assume the raf/navy will continue to maintain its own SAR ability though which should cut the workload from civvies ringing up and asking for some sandwiches to be brought up to them.

william can move to the carriers as they wont be going anywhere or have any planes before he becomes king.
 
#6
The RN will, as the SAR capability is inherent in being an aviator at sea; the RAF SAR trade will simply go (albeit they've already been taken as a saving previously, so they were living on borrowed time).
 

Grumblegrunt

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
RAF/NAVY crews fly in really shitty weather though - will the civvy lot get grounded more often like the rig fleet due to health and safety constraints?

personally I think we should upgrade the coastguard similar to the US model.
 
#10
Nope, according to a civ SAR pilot on PPRUNE, the regs they fly too - CAP999 - says:

SAR Operating Minima
4.1 The operator is to specify the minima appropriate to SAR operational flights, SAR training and any other categories of flight (e.g. air tests, positioning, demonstration flights).
4.2 Operating minima for the dispatch and continuation of a SAR operational flight are at the discretion of the aircraft commander. However, he must consider the urgency of the task, crew and aircraft capability and the requirement to recover the aircraft safely.
4.3 SAR operations will require alleviations from the ANO. Examples of such alleviations are contained in Appendix 1. The operator is to ensure that the Operations Manual contains appropriate procedures.
My bold.
 
#11
Its bullshit though isn't it?

The RN and RAF have 16 operational SAR helicopters at any one time, not the 40 alluded too.
I would have thought the loss of Nimrod was a far greater loss to SAR than privatisation of helicopter SAR

Bristow's are saying availability will be 20 aircraft rather than the 16 currently available so its actually a big increase in SAR capability
 
#13
Will 'Erics' be flying from existing SAR locations, such as Culdrose.
The Erics pilots that I worked with in FI were very professional and competent.
Still don't agree with the removal of RAF or RN SAR capability.

CG
 
#14
RAF/NAVY crews fly in really shitty weather though - will the civvy lot get grounded more often like the rig fleet due to health and safety constraints?

personally I think we should upgrade the coastguard similar to the US model.
Catch up with the hatchet job that has been done on HM Coastguard under the guise of "modernisation"
 
#15
"RAF/NAVY crews fly in really shitty weather though - will the civvy lot get grounded more often like the rig fleet due to health and safety constraints?"

They've been doing it in shitty weather for over 30 years without complaint or attention. This is just extending a service which works well already, and which is a similar model to that carried out in most other countries.

There were some good posts on PPRUNE pointing out that despite the SAR empire getting smaller, its admin overhead has significantly increased. No disrespect to the lads on the ground, but a lot of admin empire careers have been made out of the SAR force...
 
#17
Privatisation, modernisation, civilianisation - The cost of everything, the value of nothing (not just talking about SAR). Tis true, the accountants do truly rule the world ^~
 
C

cloudbuster

Guest
#18
Apparently his nickname on the flight is 'Thunderbirds' because you only ever see him do Day VFR.
I'm sure he'd like to try his hand at some of the serious tasking, but I wouldn't like to be the QHI that signs him off as Day/Night/Dogshit-capable.
 
#19
Yes, because the contract is for availability, not for airframes. PPRUNE is quoting about a 1/4 of the downtime required between a civ-maintained helicopter and a military one.

Add into that the fact the blokes are paid to maintain and fly helicopters, not be DOs, Mess Reps, Affiliation Officers, Officers of the Day, Duty Senior Rate, Duty JR for the base etc etc, means they don't need to over-man the 'squadrons'.

It's a paradigm the Military should be very interesting in reviewing.
and

There were some good posts on PPRUNE pointing out that despite the SAR empire getting smaller, its admin overhead has significantly increased. No disrespect to the lads on the ground, but a lot of admin empire careers have been made out of the SAR force...
Yes, I thought this was rather, erm, telling:

"As an ex SAR pilot (21 Years) I am just surprised that it took so long to come to this. Over that time the RAF shrank almost year on year and the SAR force became just another career step for many people and huge amounts of cash were wasted in building HQ’s and empires with consequent jobs for senior officers. When I joined SAR (from SH) in 1978 the RAF had nine SAR Flights, divided between two Squadrons, each Sqn commanded by a Squadron Leader and the whole shebang run from a green shed by a Wing Commander based at RAF Finningley. When I left in 1999 we were down to six flights, each one commanded by a Sqn Ldr; the Squadrons were commanded (fom their new HQ’s) by a Wing Commander (with a Sqn Ldr deputy) and the whole ‘force’ had a Group Captain in command (with another Wg Cdr and Sqn Ldr or two to keep him company). Part of the reason for the ‘up-grade’ was to keep RAF St Mawgan open so that there was a job for an Air Vice Marshall!"

Still, at least we've still got the Red Arrows, eh? God is in his heaven and all is right in the world.
 
#20
I agree, we should civilianise it all, everything in fact. It is far more cost effective. Pretty fucked for Op experience, reacting to situations and flying out of contracted hours, or anything vaguely military if the sh*t hits the fan though. But hey no problem, there will be no conflict post HERRICK and we will have a huge highly motivated reserve force ^~
 

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