Sandhurst incident.

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Gout Man

LE
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#61
If no one reported her how was she under investigation?
Moral courage or not, if you or anyone, for all the right reasons reports someone else who subsequently takes their own life, would you feel proud about your moral superiority or would you perhaps think that there may have been a better way of doing things. Like for instance preventing it happening in the first place.
There is another party here who could, and should have done the ' right thing'.
You may consider the death of a young girl as just collateral damage if the right thing has been done, I don't.
So if you see some one doing something which requires said person to be reported you don’t, just in case said person does something which nobody could foresee?
Might as well throw the rule book out of the window and have a free for all.
You also mentioned preventing it from happening in the first place? That’s quite a crystal ball you have there.
 
#62
This is really sad. Just think about this: A 21-year-old has died. 21. There is no reset button, her life is actually over. No moving on to better things, no having another go at something that didn't work out. That's it! It's all done and dusted.

I personally think it would be wise of all of us to show some respect for a sad loss and just let it play out in its own time.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
#63
I wish the Clinical Commissioning Groups and NHS would spend more of their millions on mental health services. And less on administration, duplication and other wasted money.
Fixed, free of charge
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
#64
You say that like it's a bad thing.

Plus I am encountering exactly the waste and duplication of which I speak every week in hubby's NHS treatment.
 
#65
You misunderstand. I've explained the moral difficulty of applying moral courage as a general concept. If there's any relevance to this particular case, it's that it's unfair to guilt-trip someone for following the rules, particularly when, as you remind us, nobody on here has the remotest inkling of the full facts.
Fair one.
I get it..second time around.
 

Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
#67
#68
So if you see some one doing something which requires said person to be reported you don’t, just in case said person does something which nobody could foresee?
Might as well throw the rule book out of the window and have a free for all.
You also mentioned preventing it from happening in the first place? That’s quite a crystal ball you have there.
No crystal ball needed, if you are so hot on doing the right thing, and if you see a reportable act taking place, then take action and stop it.
Also if she was in another persons block then that person could and should have prevented any reportable act from occurring by simply seeing her safely home.
 
#69
If no one reported her how was she under investigation?
Getting caught doesn't require you to be reported.

I imagine the 'unknown if overseas cadet' line is that overseas cadets can come from countries/cultures that take pre marital sex/affairs/females being in a male environment on their own as serious issues of family shame, which could be a driver.

Caveat - second para is all conjecture. I have no clue if she was or was not an overseas cadet. Just my thoughts

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#70
Getting caught doesn't require you to be reported.

I imagine the 'unknown if overseas cadet' line is that overseas cadets can come from countries/cultures that take pre marital sex/affairs/females being in a male environment on their own as serious issues of family shame, which could be a driver.

Caveat - second para is all conjecture. I have no clue if she was or was not an overseas cadet. Just my thoughts

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My view also, don't forget the drink also? might just be lazy journalism as a quick 'Sandhurst' aol check would have shown up that the grand-daughter of King Abdullah of Jordan passed out just before Christmas. But there again they might be on to something
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
#71
No crystal ball needed, if you are so hot on doing the right thing, and if you see a reportable act taking place, then take action and stop it.
Also if she was in another persons block then that person could and should have prevented any reportable act from occurring by simply seeing her safely home.
You don’t even know what happened that led to this incident.
Until then may I suggest you keep all thoughts and theories to yourself.
See post#64 by @greenbaggyskin
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#72
No crystal ball needed, if you are so hot on doing the right thing, and if you see a reportable act taking place, then take action and stop it.
And what if you only witness the incident, or discover evidence of it, after the fact?

Also if she was in another persons block then that person could and should have prevented any reportable act from occurring by simply seeing her safely home.
This is true, but so what? Someone else obviously breached discipline here. I suspect they're also under investigation.
 
#73
These two points aren't exclusive. Just because something might have been preventable, that doesn't make it wrong to report it after its happened.

The standard you walk past is the standard you accept. That's particularly important at RMAS where there's zero tolerance for bad discipline and integrity is expected.

That's not to say that someone necessarily reported her in this instance. It's a general point that applies to all types of bad discipline. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.
First and foremost RIP to the lass, and best wishes to her folks, friends and classmates.

Slightly digressing ....wonder .if the likes of West Point or Colorado Springs or Annapolis .....honor code is taught, drummed in albeit not so Much hazing as the last century is worse than Sandhurdt, Dartmouth or Cranwell.

over 2 decades ago....the honor code kind of dropped two aspiring cadets who were guaranteed places at the academies because matey decided to loosen his zipper while attached ...and thus followed murder of an teenage lass ( the recipient of the affair ).

The Killer Cadets
 
#74
First and foremost RIP to the lass, and best wishes to her folks, friends and classmates.

Slightly digressing ....wonder .if the likes of West Point or Colorado Springs or Annapolis .....honor code is taught, drummed in albeit not so Much hazing as the last century is worse than Sandhurdt, Dartmouth or Cranwell.

over 2 decades ago....the honor code kind of dropped two aspiring cadets who were guaranteed places at the academies because matey decided to loosen his zipper while attached ...and thus followed murder of an teenage lass ( the recipient of the affair ).

The Killer Cadets
West Point has had problems with football players getting all rapey in the past few years, graduating a full blown commie, and other incidents that made the news.
Air Force has had racist accusations that were fabricated by a black cadet to prove a point last year.
Naval Academy has been fairly scandal free as of late.
They have the same issues as most American universities, not really the same to compare to Sandhurst. Same goes for RMC in Canada, not the same structure the British use so comparisons can be misleading. Spending 4 years abiding by a code that controls every aspect of your life 24/7/365 is most likely harder than attending Sandhurst for a much shorter period.
 
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#75
Off thread clarification - still happens. Just depends on which stage of the course. Cranwell black out the face, Shawbury has the block dot in basic, red cross in advanced

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AAC pilots failing flying training traditionally got an axe drawn in their heads...
 
#77
Out of interest, are there standing orders at RMA which prohibit sex or otherwise with other mess members after drunken high spirits?

Absolute tragedy for her family, the army and the wider armed services.

Heartbreaking
 
#78
Out of interest, are there standing orders at RMA which prohibit sex or otherwise with other mess members after drunken high spirits?

Absolute tragedy for her family, the army and the wider armed services.

Heartbreaking
Yes, the same fraternisation regulations as every other Basic Training Establishment

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#79
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