Sam Harris on Fitna & coewardice of western media

Discussion in 'Films, Music and All Things Artsy' started by AndyPipkin, May 7, 2008.

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  1. At 1:12 on the film ive never seen that angle of the plane hitting the tower quite shocking.
  2. Excellent article. Though will such a well argued point be allowed to see the light of day in the National Press?
    It reminds me of a phrase I heard feminists chanting while protesting about the Israeli invasion of The Lebanon " We are Hizbollah!" I could never understand why they would say that as that organization is total opposed to every one of there ideals.
    The Times posed the same question and the response? There not white so to criticise them is being racist!
  3. Again agreed,it is a great article and right on the money.Where are the great satirists when you need them?I want to see a film entitled 'life of mohammed' and dont want to have to wait two hundred years for the 'religion of peace' to grow up and take a bit on the chin.
  4. FFS grow up. Apart from a few loonies EVERYBODY knows what the major threat is at the moment. These nutters films aren't adding anything new.
  5. I take it you did not agree with the sentiment of the article then?And if it is mearly 'a few loonies' causing the trouble why does such a small group wield such a disproportional strangle hold over freedom of expression in the western media?Perhaps you think that the threats they make are to be taken with a pinch of salt?
  6. That movie is pathetic IMO. Does nothing but spread propaganda and make people even more ignorant to what's really going on.

    Might as well make a video showing the kkk and neo nazis and relate that to all white people. Or maybe a video connecting christianity the kkk etc.
  7. in_the_cheapseats

    in_the_cheapseats LE Moderator

    Did you actually bother to read the article? Your comments are ignorant and miss the point that is being debated.

  8. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    You ignorant tit. You're part of the problem. Try reading the article before gobbing off.
  9. Given how much the Western media bashes Muslims these days, I wouldn't say that they were shackled by political correctness.

    For an intelligent Muslim response to the current problems in the Islamic world, you should read this:

    The author is the Professor of Islamic Studies at Cambridge and probably the best-known Islamic theologian in the UK today.

    The argument is that al-Qaeda is a fundamentally modern phenomenon, like fascism or communism, and has nothing to do with the traditional Islam of the ulama.

    Shaikh Abdul Hakim suggests that there is nothing inherently Islamic about suicide bombing; that in fact it has appeared in other cultures at other times; that it represents a mistaken interpretation of Islam.

    An audio talk on a related subject here (criticising suicide bombing in the Middle East and praising pluralism in Jerusalem):
  10. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    What a load of waffling crap. AQ is simply a name to cover extremists ideoligy, theres nothing modern or otherwise about it, its a name. This is an attempt to blame western society for Islamist fundamentalist terrorism. It's not my fault fuckwits are trying to murder non muslims in the name of god.

    Suicide bombing is a tactic, no different than a right flanking.

    He might be a clever bloke but he still talks rubbish.
  11. The article is interesting, but the film shows nothing we don't already know. I,m sure someone could come up with extracts from the bible that call for killing and punishment, and follow it up with some film clips.

    It is the disproportionate amount of understanding and acceptance of the radical Muslim ranting that is the worry. Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus , Buddists etc etc would not be allowed to behave the same way, yet it could be argued they speak for larger proportions of our society than the Muslims do.
  12. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Now RAB that is the nub of the problem and you put is so clearly.
  13. That's too simplistic - the idea that AQ is a modernist ideology like Fascism has been recognised by many thinkers, including people as diverse as John Gray or Michael Gove.

    Abdul Hakim Murad is a really important thinker because he is urging young Muslims to return to a traditional, pluralistic form of Islam, and to reject Wahhabism. He believes that AQ is a aberration created by Western modernity, with its "them-and-us" emphasis and its rejection of Islamic tradition. Maybe you think he's naive but if his ideas get more widely accepted (which seems to be starting to happen) then it can only be healthy for Muslims living in the UK.

    I just wanted to suggest that there are other voices out there, and that "Fitna" is not an accurate representation of what Islam is about.
  14. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Simplistic or not, it is not the wests fault radical islam is murdering its way across the world. This way of thinking seeks to place the blame for this behaviour somehow on my shoulders and I'm telling you its rubbish.

    Muslims living in the UK will have to realise that religious murder is not acceptable, or excusable under any circumstances. It cannot be justified in any shape or form, end-fcuking-dex.

    This bollocks seeks somehow to justify this murderous behaviour and I for one reject it outright.

    I'm not anti-muslim, but you cannot justify the extremist viepoint in any way, so why are you trying to.