Safety within th CCF

#1
Chaps,

If you speak to lots of ACF types, you will hear of their opinion of th CCF being unsafe places (long with having bad turnout and in need of f**king hair cut). While I do not dispute the latter, can anyone show me physical evidence (reported cases in the media) of safety breaches which have resulted in serious harm or death?

Now, rather than providing hearsay of "me best mate Dave said..." I am trying to collate hard evidence on this subject.

I thank you.

WM
 
#9
They are both uniformed youth organisations!!!!

Unless one of them is for adults who want to dress up and pretend they are in the army.....
....
....
oh hang on.
 
#10
The CCF is far more dangerous as they end up in the FOBs. The ACF never leave Bastion where they have a full time role standing in for the RAF Regiment.
 
#12
Not the same thing. Chiefly because the majority of the CCF cadets are not there voluntarily - most CCFs are compulsorily for 3 to 6 terms. Not least to get MoD funds for AT/Shooting/DoE which are based on theoretical contingent size.

A significant number of their 'officers' are also there because their Head has told them to be rather than through pure choice. These 'officers' are also the only holders of a Queen's Commission in the Army left who are not required to pass a selection board, even ACF go to Westbury now, CCF are commissioned on their Head's sayso.

All goes some way towards explaining the turnout and attitude sometimes displayed.
 
#13
Not the same thing. Chiefly because the majority of the CCF cadets are not there voluntarily - most CCFs are compulsorily for 3 to 6 terms. Not least to get MoD funds for AT/Shooting/DoE which are based on theoretical contingent size.

A significant number of their 'officers' are also there because their Head has told them to be rather than through pure choice. These 'officers' are also the only holders of a Queen's Commission in the Army left who are not required to pass a selection board, even ACF go to Westbury now, CCF are commissioned on their Head's sayso.

All goes some way towards explaining the turnout and attitude sometimes displayed.
While I am not contesting any of this, sadly, this is not the point of the thread.
 
#14
In the run of things, I'd've thought ACFs would have had more danger. The majority of Ossifers in CCFs will be teachers, which can be pretty full time, and work really does tend to follow them home. As well as that, each one is more or less independant. I'm not suggesting ACF instructors wouldn't have any less work, but having access to far more officers in a County unit must make it easier to organise bigger, more complicated exercises, with the increased risk that would entail. If CCFs are lucky, they might have one Sgt Instructor of the ex-regs variety, who likely works between several entirely separate units that do completely different stuff assisting the teachers.

But at the end of the day it really depends on the people who organise the exercises, how much effort they put in, and how good they are. A couple of decent Officers who might put on a really exciting, well thought out exercise that tests the sprogs in a challenging manner while remaining as safe as it's possible to be. A couple of jack officers or ssi's might put on a far less adventurous, less intense exercise which though it attempts to do so much less will be far less safe.

I think the better discussion is on the quality of staff at different units -- if you must do a 'which is better' comparison. That said, some CCFs will stand head and shoulders above some ACFs - and vice-versa.
 
#15
In the run of things, I'd've thought ACFs would have had more danger. The majority of Ossifers in CCFs will be teachers, which can be pretty full time, and work really does tend to follow them home. As well as that, each one is more or less independant. I'm not suggesting ACF instructors wouldn't have any less work, but having access to far more officers in a County unit must make it easier to organise bigger, more complicated exercises, with the increased risk that would entail. If CCFs are lucky, they might have one Sgt Instructor of the ex-regs variety, who likely works between several entirely separate units that do completely different stuff assisting the teachers.

But at the end of the day it really depends on the people who organise the exercises, how much effort they put in, and how good they are. A couple of decent Officers who might put on a really exciting, well thought out exercise that tests the sprogs in a challenging manner while remaining as safe as it's possible to be. A couple of jack officers or ssi's might put on a far less adventurous, less intense exercise which though it attempts to do so much less will be far less safe.

I think the better discussion is on the quality of staff at different units -- if you must do a 'which is better' comparison. That said, some CCFs will stand head and shoulders above some ACFs - and vice-versa.
I believe this has been discussed in other threads. Not looking for who is better, just lookin for physical evidence.
 
#16
Not the same thing. Chiefly because the majority of the CCF cadets are not there voluntarily - most CCFs are compulsorily for 3 to 6 terms. Not least to get MoD funds for AT/Shooting/DoE which are based on theoretical contingent size.

A significant number of their 'officers' are also there because their Head has told them to be rather than through pure choice. These 'officers' are also the only holders of a Queen's Commission in the Army left who are not required to pass a selection board, even ACF go to Westbury now, CCF are commissioned on their Head's sayso.
I think the sad thing is, the opposite problem is now more prevalent. Most teachers cannot be having with the extra faff that officering in the CCF does, and more importantly, many heads are disinterested in their units. I know of CCFs who have a dedicated core of officers but who struggle to get new teachers to join (once their job is secure, i.e. they've been in the school 6 months and don't seem to be too awful, thier interest markedly falls away), and the heads do nothing one way or the other. Worse still, one of the older CCFs recently was disbanded because the new head decided the school would have none of that miltary nonsense, which was a crying shame for the kids.
 
#17
I think the sad thing is, the opposite problem is now more prevalent. Most teachers cannot be having with the extra faff that officering in the CCF does, and more importantly, many heads are disinterested in their units. I know of CCFs who have a dedicated core of officers but who struggle to get new teachers to join (once their job is secure, i.e. they've been in the school 6 months and don't seem to be too awful, thier interest markedly falls away), and the heads do nothing one way or the other. Worse still, one of the older CCFs recently was disbanded because the new head decided the school would have none of that miltary nonsense, which was a crying shame for the kids.
All the above is sadly valid in today's CCFs.
 

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