Sack regular squaddies - replace with Stabs?

#3
BBC
The government is considering making further cuts to the size of the Army to enable a "substantial increase" in reserve forces such as the TA.

An independent review of reserve forces is expected to recommend a recruitment drive for more part-time soldiers.

Better pay and training will be offered but there will be more emphasis on reservists in civilian jobs to go on military operations when needed.

The government already plans to reduce soldiers by 7,000 to 95,000 by 2015.
The review, which is set to be published next week, is calling for more part-time soldiers, sailors and airmen in the TA, the Royal Naval Reserve and the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve.

The aim is to make the reserves more professional, forming more stand-alone units that can deploy and operate on their own, rather than just attaching reservists in small groups across the regular forces.
'Upfront cash'

Reservists cost much less than regular forces and increasing their number would in the long run save the Ministry of Defence (MoD) substantial sums.

The government is already cutting the size of the full-time army as a result of the defence spending review announced last year.

Any further cuts in the regular army - to help pay for increasing the reserves - would begin only after combat troops have left Afghanistan in 2015.

There are currently around 36,000 servicemen and women in the TA, with a few thousand in the maritime and air force reserves.

One defence source said the MoD would need upfront cash to pay for an expansion of the TA but he added that "more reserves will mean fewer regulars but not until we are out of Afghanistan".
BBC News - Army may face cuts to fund TA reservists
 
#4
The elephant in the room is, of course, the British people.

Will employers allow their employees to jet off for a bit of Johny bashing?, to maintain the training levels required to carry out Ops as well as regulars?

Will people volunteer (in greater numbers) to join the TA?

Personally, I'd see the 'units' being notionally regular (even if just a cadre) with IAs bolted on as neccesary. I don't believe the UK mindset and view of troops will allow for whole sale TA unit activation, such as USNG.

And although cheap at the moment, will their costs increase with various extras being added on to attract the applicants we need? ILC, ELC for TA for example?
 
#5
BBC
The government is considering making further cuts to the size of the Army to enable a "substantial increase" in reserve forces such as the TA.

An independent review of reserve forces is expected to recommend a recruitment drive for more part-time soldiers.

Better pay and training will be offered but there will be more emphasis on reservists in civilian jobs to go on military operations when needed.

The government already plans to reduce soldiers by 7,000 to 95,000 by 2015.
The review, which is set to be published next week, is calling for more part-time soldiers, sailors and airmen in the TA, the Royal Naval Reserve and the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve.

The aim is to make the reserves more professional, forming more stand-alone units that can deploy and operate on their own, rather than just attaching reservists in small groups across the regular forces.
'Upfront cash'

Reservists cost much less than regular forces and increasing their number would in the long run save the Ministry of Defence (MoD) substantial sums.

The government is already cutting the size of the full-time army as a result of the defence spending review announced last year.

Any further cuts in the regular army - to help pay for increasing the reserves - would begin only after combat troops have left Afghanistan in 2015.

There are currently around 36,000 servicemen and women in the TA, with a few thousand in the maritime and air force reserves.

One defence source said the MoD would need upfront cash to pay for an expansion of the TA but he added that "more reserves will mean fewer regulars but not until we are out of Afghanistan".
BBC News - Army may face cuts to fund TA reservists
My bold, how many of these 36,000 can actualy deploy or have deployed? I am willing to bet the numbers will be low.

I know from various tours that the TA lads/lassies that were attached to us had done multiple tours and the majority of the people in their units used it as a drinking club.
 
#6
The key to all that is "5,000 deployable troops ready and trained”.

If you really can get to that figure and standard of training and keep to it not entirely without merit. But it will cost, need a lot of effort to manage properly and each and every one of those 5,000 will have to show a degree of personal application that is largely outside the mindset of far too many currently in the TA. (Not a knocking comment but we all know it is true.)

If however you get to the much more likely "5,000 theoretical deployable troops not really ready and cheaply trained” then it is just going to be a disaster in progress.
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
My bold, how many of these 36,000 can actualy deploy or have deployed? I am willing to bet the numbers will be low.

I know from various tours that the TA lads/lassies that were attached to us had done multiple tours and the majority of the people in their units used it as a drinking club.
Nipped the words right off my keyboard


Before we start getting all moist about TA units parachuting into Libya and grabbing Gaddaffi one Saturday morning whilst everyones on weekend standown the T.A. needs a good look at itself
Mass sackings off the old guard are required
Too many are hanging round ducking tours but scooping up exchange tours diving courses and nice cushy trips away.
The lads who have done tours as you say have done mulitple tours
Lets clear out all the dead wood in the T.A. and then look at restructuring.
 
#8
The elephant in the room is, of course, the British people.

Will employers allow their employees to jet off for a bit of Johny bashing?, to maintain the training levels required to carry out Ops as well as regulars?
Thats the key. UK defence has been historically volunteer and then TA/TF for hundred(s) of years, the use of the regular army for this role is relatively new. The rough planning figure for WW1 and WW2 was 4 territorial army units per one regular (this excludes all those on empire duties, I suppose you could call this ops today).

Given the UK threat is now further away a continuation of this policy would be to increase the territorial to regular ratio further.

A more sensible idea would be to reduce the Ops supporting TA in line with cuts to regular army but increase the size of the reserves in homeland defence.
 
#9
My bold, how many of these 36,000 can actualy deploy or have deployed?
But that includes those in training etc and numbers (at least 5000 in my cap badge alone) earmarked for UK Ops.

And it is a reserve? Should we alongside your 36K figure add in the number of regulars not deployed on Ops?
 
#10
My bold, how many of these 36,000 can actualy deploy or have deployed? I am willing to bet the numbers will be low.

I know from various tours that the TA lads/lassies that were attached to us had done multiple tours and the majority of the people in their units used it as a drinking club.
Off the top of my head RE TA has 2700 all up. About 60% qualified for bounty. About 200 mobilised/FTRS.

I don't know whether recruits/SuTs are in that 2700 but it would make sense 1/3 joining, 1/3 in, 1/3 thinking of leaving/leaving.

There are stats flying around as to how many did TELIC and HERRICK but I don't have 'em.

The TA I am in has made huge changes since I joined in the early naughties but still has some way to go. Most of the cold war warriors have been self culling but some linger on. Irritatingly many have done (got TOLD to do) TELIC so there are very few SNCOs and Officers above Lt sporting a peace chest. Remember, the regular army is still asking for volunteers not telling people to go so the figures are massively skewed.
 
#11
Put your shoe an on the other foot and l think there is one major flaw in this, the employers.

In the future, how many companies will start to hire employees that are in the TA knowing that they will be away for X ammount of days a year? They employ people to do a job and if these people are not going to be doing that job then their backside will be in a sling as soon as legally possible.

If l was an employer running a business with my own money, then l would certainly have thoughts about employing them, especially if l was trying to run a reasonably successfull business.
 
#12
But that includes those in training etc and numbers (at least 5000 in my cap badge alone) earmarked for UK Ops.

And it is a reserve? Should we alongside your 36K figure add in the number of regulars not deployed on Ops?
It would be interesting to see the percentages alongside each other, I would be willing to bet the TA one would be higher though.

I was'nt looking for a bite, was an observation from my experiance with the TA we had attached on various tours. They all complained about the drinking club good ole boys that stayed at home hogging the promotions propping the bar and reminiscing about a battle camp they did in 1986.

The vast majority of blokes we had were very profesional and fitted in well with the guys but like I said they had done multiple tours so were clued up.
 
#13
Great! Reduce the regs and replace it with dads army. Yep, i can see the reasoning behind that.
Right, we're going to Afghanistan / Iraq / Libya, or anywhere else the gov decides to rape, and Bert Jones tells his C.O he can't possibly cos he's got work in the morning and Fred Smith has promised the wife and kids that he's taking them to Tenerife in Julember!
Dick Browns got a bad back and Stan Green hasn't been seen for the last 4 ****ing weekends cos his wife's kicked off.
Its really gonna ****ing work!
 
Z

Zarathustra

Guest
#14
Replace then with reservists yes, replace them with TA? Can't see it happening, unless they made every mobilisation compulsory, which would then make employers anti-TA.
 
#15
C'mon Zen, "dad's army"?!? you're te to twenty years out of date, surely you can come up with some more up-to date abuse than that! If you're going to trot out tired old cliche's don't forget to include the "drinking club" mentality and "weekend warriors" etc etc

You want a useable reserve, then those at the top need to stop hiding behind the "casual employee" definition, enact proper TACOS and make mobilisation compulsory instead of hiding behind voluntary "intelligent" mobilisation.

But this announcement has the stench of Government tactical leak to it.
The Army is being screwed (along with the rest of the MoD), the easiest way for the Govt to force through unpopular measures could be to create infighting between Army/Navy/RAF, Reg/Reserve etc etc, then we're busy calling each other names instead of giving the politicians headaches, divide and conquer maybe...?
 
#16
None of this should a shock to anyone right now, with this govenment.

It is still annoying to hear that people still think the TA is just a retiement club for old squaddies, with only 10 men per Bn that want to deploy.

Most units I know have sent lots of guys out, some more than once. There proberbly are some old and bold around but they tend to do the G4 stuff so that the young thrusters can train and get on Ops.

If you bin all the older/fatter blokes you are going to to pull men away from training in order to all the stuff needed to keep the unit on its feet.

I have been thinking for years the TA needs to be treated more like the National Guard by the govenment. Trained, manned, organised and used with much greater respect than we get now.
 
#17
Replace then with reservists yes, replace them with TA? Can't see it happening, unless they made every mobilisation compulsory, which would then make employers anti-TA.
My bold, thats one way to reduce the drinking club culture. They would probably half the numbers in the TA.

I agree that employers would look unfavourably on employees that where in the TA, they would be the first to be made redundant.
 
#18
Crow Bag has a point, the word was reservist. Could we see ex regs paid a premium to join a Reserve unit that trains regularly augmented by TA's who have done tours or done extended training? Maybe the TA will go down the National Guard road as in three months basic training, proper legal protection for the volunteers and extended continuation training.

The employer issue will be a tough one. Despite any legal protection, it will be very difficult even for large employers to cope with an employee who can disappear for three months at the drop of a hat.
 
#20
Or better yet stop trying to buy off foreign countries (who have space programmes ffs!) with billions of pounds in "aid" and use the money to fund armed services who can slap down the sods if they get uppity?
 
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