Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by MrTracey, Jan 3, 2007.

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  1. Sycophantic Army Biased Reinforcements Enablers?

    Are they really looking after the TA soldier or protecting the Armys flow of IRs? There must be some evidence out there of either as i'm getting fed up of Sabre stuff in my locker when all it seems to do is remind me that my employer will be happy to see me go.
  2. YES!!!!!

    SABRE is a club for the executives to have a jolly at the expense of the MOD, a few drinks, make some contacts worktowards their knighthoods.

    The cost is to make decisions which will never filter down to the line mamangers or effect the shabby treatment of employers towards reservists. Hell the MOD treats Reservists badly why should anyone else do any better?

    Still there has to be something in it for someone, just not a Reservist.

    One request: can they make the paper mountain out of soft paper so we can use it in the bogs when the defence/unit budget no longer runs to proper toilet paper.

  3. jmj

    jmj Old-Salt

    I wish they'd stop bothering my company. one member of staff seems to have been pinged as "HR" (she's actually out accounts type bod) and gets no end of people from sabre ringing her up with surveys relating to employing me.

    Ok Sabre, I did my bit, my employer was kind enough not to appeal, we've got the nice certificate, can you please stop pestering us?

  4. msr

    msr LE

    Contact your local SaBRE rep (or whatever their job title is this week).

  5. I do wonder Mr T whether you may not be wholly correct in your assessment. Sabre may indeed, in all liklihood be a thinly disguised veil of deceit in purporting to protect the interests of the TA soldier whereas wholly focused on facilitating the supply of IRs whilst simultaneously ensuring that any appeals (either by the employer or the soldier) are mitigated in the Army's favour.

    Pity no-one noticed earlier. You will be inetrested to know that I have recently attended a very well funded Sabre event with local employers. Most of these looked somewhet bemused but enjoyed the lavish hospitality. Maybe we should have spent the money on family accommodation?
  6. ABrighter2006 - Thanks for pointing out that thread which, as you say, explains SaBRE’s role. Our website ( also explains about us.

    Mr Tracey’s point appears to be that we exist to support the Reserve Forces’ in meeting their objectives, including delivering operational capability. Well, yes, that’s quite right!

    On a couple of specific points which have been raised …

    - The information we gather through our research amongst employers not only informs SaBRE’s programme but feeds directly into the policymakers at the MOD, to help address the concerns of employers. We take care to vary which employers are contacted in research.

    - All our mail includes the facility for employers to opt out of any future mailings if they wish to. Alternatively they can email us through our website to have details amended or be taken off future lists.
  7. Thanks.

    There was some comment a few months ago, relating to "TA Friendly" employers and a list being drawn up. Although a thread was contributed to, I think most posters acknowledged that it doesn't necessarily matter what the top table policy is, if middle and supervisory management are against the TA (for whatever reason).

    Given the amount of surveys and contact that Sabre have with UK employers, it would be easy to assume that Sabre do indeed possess such information. Is it likely that this data will at some stage be shared with the very people who would benefit from it?
  8. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    Very good point, and one which I am afraid I don't think SaBRE does - or really can - do much about. I can give you a couple of examples from personal experience; one, a Postman, was told by his Supervisor that despite PO regulations saying he was entitled to time off for Annual camp, that he could get knotted, and that he had to work. Another large orgnanisation (funnily, also a State/Public Sector Employer) displayed a similar attitude at 'manager' level to mobilisation, while at the same time their headshed were full of praise and support for the TA.

    Any bright ideas and suggestions as to how to help wit this sort of attitude?
  9. I know this appears as "Sabre bating" or similar - but that is not my intent.

    Throughout my service, I sat through so many briefings, lectures and discussions relating to this very subject. Yes, Sabre's remit has to be to liaise with and understand the concerns of employers, but at the same time appears to trumpet RFA96 as the answer to all woes.

    I don't necessarily have a problem with this, where it stinks to high heaven is that when employer / employee relations go wrong, it appears from my own experience (and that of a few other posters) that everyone steps back from the firing point and says "go and seek legal advice - at your own expense".

    I know that a very key "selling point" of RFA96 was the "Reservist Employers" will benefit specifically as a result of employing them. This of course, is simply not the case.

    Many employers (and for that matter, a number of Reservists) have been left well and truly out of pocket through our current operational involvement, is it any wonder therefore, that we see more hostility to voluntary service and that for many employees now, the opportunity to join the TA / Reserve Forces is a known barrier to promotion in their' full time careers?
  10. Supporting Britains Reservists and Employers. Nice title, where apart from a very narrow area does the supporting Reservists come in.

    From all I have seen, experienced and read, unless an employer is stupid enough to state "We are sacking you because you are a Reservist" very clearly then SABRE can do absoloutely nothing to help a reservist.

    If a reservist is passed over for promotion because of his service SABRE can do nothing unless its stated in writing, very plainly.

    If a Reservist is not given a job because he is a reservist, then SABRE can do nothing.

    If an employer, forces you into a position where you feel obliged to resign because of mobilisation SABRE can do nothing.

    If an employer says to a reservist if you can give the odd weekend to the TA we shall make you work every weekend, SABRE can do nothing.

    Pointless drinking club for employers, why petend its anything to do with supporting Reservists.

    I bet they dont take that back to the MOD!

  11. It is quite clearly laid out on the SaBRE website exactly what they are prepared to do for a reservist. In amongst the lists of things the reservist has to do for the TA and the employer in return for anticipating unforseen mobilisation at any time with all the associated drama that may cause it has the following pearls:

    i.e. nothing.
  12. SABRE - a useful organisation or RFCA desperate to have something to do? The last thing I want is SABRE going anywhere near my employers. We, like many, have a UESO (unit employer support officer), a properly employed TA officer who is himself an employer - and if anyone goes near my employers, it is him. From time to time we get complaints from employers about bombardment and it is always SABRE stuff.

    RFCA - wonderful organisation, but should have nothing to do with recruiting, recruit marketing, recruit marketing budgets, employers etc.
  13. How much of the valuable and apparently very limited defence budget do they spend on SABRE?

    I suggest it might be money better spent in other areas which might really be of support to Reservists.

  14. I posted yesterday evening half expecting to log on this morning to a barrage of "Sabre was great for me" type posts - uhmmm.

    What I draw from the comments is that many here feel in a similar way. This is not just an issue for TA soldiers though and as our reliance on reservists continues into the foreseeable future, many currently serving soldiers could well find themselves mobilised from the reserve list over the coming five years. So I would welcome input and debate from those currently serving. Assuming that they all happily find employers that aren’t anti-TA, War in Iraq/Afghanistan, army is full of baby killers, etc, these issues will affect them

    Cardinal's point about the cost of Sabre is interesting, and warrants some form of response.

    I believe it would be useful for Sabre_helpline to respond, or pass these questions onto somebody within Sabre to answer with some clarity. This is not a "let's bugger Sabre around" mission, but every member of the TA is affected by the way Sabre work, often (or, so it would appear here) it seems that Sabre's entire focus is towards the employer.

    The role of UESO that pers are referred to is IMHO fatally flawed. As I understand (and from my own experience) the UESO is more often than not the TA unit PSAO, or similarly positioned permanent staff officer. My USAO (and those on ARRSE who know me/him) will probably agree, is an absolutely top soldier - LE Officer, Ops experience, rose through the ranks, and a great example of what the British Army expects of it's men.

    What he isn't, is an expert in employment law, RFA96 , the commercial business environment, or understanding the impact of TA soldiers to their civilian employers. Yes, he can state the "Reservists make better employees" mantra, but employers have heard this from year dot. Ultimately the UESO's that I have come across suffer a huge credibility gap, when speaking to employers who have very real concerns about the "dangers" of employing reservists.

    The "can my employer do this?" posts that have appeared here and elsewhere over the last three years, point to what appears to be a fundamental disconnect between the MOD and it's reservist soldiers and officers.

    RFA96 appears to be incredibly “woolly” and as such any half decent lawyer can drive a coach and horses through it. Sabre’s reliance on referring people to the website to read about something they are probably already aware of is not what’s needed. What is needed is the ability for Sabre to represent the TA Soldier’s interests when the going gets shitty with his or her employer. They are all too happy to do the drinks reception / shiny arrse, pressy fleshy stuff, but when it comes to backing TA soldiers to the hilt, with the weight of RFA96, it appears not to happen. I hope that I am proved wrong on this.

    So, similarly to Cardinal, I too would ask how much Sabre costs the UK tax payer each year.