SaBRE?

#1
Greetings chaps,

A question to pose to thee about the doubiously-named SaBRE. I ask as I will be sitting down with the boss in the near future to inform him of my choice to take on the TA, and would like to be armed with some info about providing him/the company with any help(if at all) for whatever inconveniences may or may not arise from training, and hopefully deployment in the future.

But I have seen that SaBRE has not endeared itself to many of the members here - as useful as a chocolate teapot seems to be the general concensus. So I ask the great minds here for their full opinion! Is the negativity from experience? From what I can gather on their website (I must confess I could only manage reading a few pages, alot of the contents was too much for my small brain), they offer all sorts of lovely little bits of help and advice to employers who have TA guys on their payroll. Helping to cover expenses like temps to replace the TA employee for durations of absence was of particular interest, as I'd like to be able to do my training in one hit - and do not have enough annual leave to do so.

Is this not the case? Are they more trouble then they're worth? Is there any point at all to mentioning them to the guv?
Positive or negative, I welcome any feedback on the matter.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Moderator
Book Reviewer
#2
SaBRE themselves are helpful BUT - they do not supply anything other than advice. They don't pay employers, for example. They do their best, and there are a few cracking young ladies working there, so give them a call :)

They can only do what they are paid/allowed to do, so don't expect miracles, but they do have a reasonable budget for pretty leaflets, brochures, a pretty mediocre website, etc. Oh, and if your Boss is keen, they can arrange occasionally for him to come and visit you on Ops. Wouldn't that be nice? :)
 
#3
Ah, OldSnowy! I cannot tell you how warm my tummy feels at the thought of having him visiting me! :)

Thank you for the info, kind sir. It would perhaps not hurt to mention them and pass on some info, I suppose. If he finds some benefit to it, all the better. I will certainly give them a tinkle to exploit their what I hope to be extensive use of lovely ladies and partake in a bit of pathetic and perverse phone-flirting.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#4
Engage them with caution.

They can serve a useful function, but sometimes get a bit carried away and forget that they are not the best people to manage the employee/employer relationship - you are.

My employer has done a few employer visits with them that have been beneficial in terms of increasing his knowledge of what we do, but is still receiving unsolicited mail from them, not all of which is well thought out or presented.
 
#5
SaBRE themselves are helpful BUT - they do not supply anything other than advice. They don't pay employers, for example. They do their best, and there are a few cracking young ladies working there, so give them a call :)

They can only do what they are paid/allowed to do, so don't expect miracles, but they do have a reasonable budget for pretty leaflets, brochures, a pretty mediocre website, etc. Oh, and if your Boss is keen, they can arrange occasionally for him to come and visit you on Ops. Wouldn't that be nice? :)
You're takeing hte p1ss right?
 
#7
Greetings chaps,

Helping to cover expenses like temps to replace the TA employee for durations of absence was of particular interest, as I'd like to be able to do my training in one hit - and do not have enough annual leave to do so.

.
Employers can claim money to pay for cover while you're away - but only when you are mobilised, not away on training.
 
#8
I agree with The Duke - proceed with extreme caution.

If you want LCpl Jones from Dads Army negotiating your terms and conditions with your civie boss, then crack on. SaBRE ( and anyone in the Army, including your perm staff) are naturally only interested in what you can do for the Army, for many of them, their world is wrapped up in all things HERRICK ( and rightly so) - to your boss, Afghanistan is merely a tragic BBC webpage.

Are you going to be honest with your boss and say that you volunteered to be mobilised, if so don't be surprised if he sacks you. What will the Army do about that - nothing, what will SaBRE do about it, nothing other than to tip up at your place former place of work and get all red faced with your former employer.

Why are you informing your Boss about your TA commitment anyway, why should he be interested? The only time your employer is interested is when you risk your main income to mobilise.

If I was your Boss, knowing the system a bit, I would be asking you in for an interview without coffee, ask you straight did you volunteer, then get you down to HR on a disciplinary if that is possible, sack you (saving statutory redundancy pay), hire someone cheaper because wages are dropping or not hire anyone and shift your workload onto everyone else, because the cost saving will make me look good to my Boss. If you appeal, I've got you on the disciplinary and the Army and SaBRE will not engage because they don't want the myth of "compulsory mobilisation" out of the bag. If SaBRE do engage, I will instruct a PA type to deal with them politely and professionally until they get the message and give up.

It has probably been suggested that you inform your employer about the TA and a whole lot of bluster about assisting communication with your employer, protecting your rights etc - it's all bollocks. The Army want you to do a HERRICK tour and for the lowest possible cost, you are a name on a spreadsheet and if you lose your job, there is sod all that the Army or SaBRE can realistically do about it.

What organisation pays the bills - your job or your TA hobby??
 
#9
I'd echo the above. Also bear in mind that your employer will be finding out as current policy is that they have to know about your membership of the TA. This was brought in to eliminate unpleasant surprises for employers. You can apply for an exemption from this but my understanding is that they are few and far between.

The official Army line is quite clear; get your boss on side before you join, and again before you volunteer for a tour. Idiots that try and force the issue and the fools in some command appointments that turn a blind eye to the same are one of the reasons employers are far less TA friendly than they usedv to be.
 
#10
I only contacted SABRE regarding TA leave once, I sorted it out myself, I still haven't heard from them, eleven odd years later!

At least a chocolate teapot can be seen.

I don't know what the current philosophy is, but it was
Family, Work, TA.

As has been said what pays your bills? Work or TA?
 
#11
Thank you, chaps. Plenty of great feedback.

Hooch - I intended to sit down with him 'in the near future', but it was by no means an already-made decision. But yes, you are of course right - the only reason I felt compelled to do so was because of the insistence that you do so to avoid surprises a'la mobalisation etc etc etc. other than that and perhaps offering the olive branch and providing some help, I quite honestly don't care whether he is aware of it or not....as has been said over and over, it's a hobby.

I'll take on the advice offered and keep quiet about it. But I must be honest guys, I personally can't see the point in joining up if not to deploy and serve alongside the regs - especially as the poor bastards are facing cutbacks, and the idea of joining the TA only to skirt around deployment and instead have the Gov't spend the cash training me to sit around the barracks and do **** all really doesn't sit well with me.

Which brings me to a question this has raised - going by the views and facts, it would appear that the feeling is a little like 'Dont even bother with the TA.' Yes it is ultimately a hobby although as I said before, my aim would be to deploy. But with the black cloud hanging over one's employer regarding it all, it seems that the attitude is that the only people who should be encouraged to sign up are the unemployed.
Is there really so little incentive for an employer to have a serving TA soldier? If it really is that bad, the it truly flies in the face of everything SaBRE go on about - in which case, I'll give them a very ******* wide berth indeed.

Anyone have a rough idea as to how many TA have deployed? A small number out of the TA contingent, I suspect.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#12
Actually quite a large number of deployments, but by no means evenly spread across the whole of the TA.

I do not subscribe to the "don't tell your employer" notion - I have always told mine and been open and more importantly honest about the realities of mobilisation. For me, better to have a good level of communication with your employer and mobilise with their support (however difficult the negotiations may be) than not tell them and it become obvious that you have not been honest with your employer as and when mobilisation arises.

Besides, how do you negotiate additional leave allowances if you don't tell them what you need them for?
 
#13
.as has been said over and over, it's a hobby.
Also worth checking your employment contract. You might describe it as a hobby, but legally it is casual labour.

m-s-r
 
#14
Actually quite a large number of deployments, but by no means evenly spread across the whole of the TA.
That is pleasing to hear. If you don't mind my asking, but how has your employer responded to the possibility of deployment, be it voluntary or otherwise?
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#15
Mine?

Extra leave pre-mobilisation to ensure I had no shortage of time for training and full use of my holiday allowance on my family, maintained all pension and private medical contributions whilst deployed to ensure my family remained covered, kept responsibilities for my bonuses while I was away to avoid me having to discuss it with the army and forwarded details of my pay increase to me while I was in theatre so that I could get my military pay adjusted accordingly.

Like I said, discuss it with them in plenty of time vs hit them with it last thing and leave them feeling like they have been kept in the dark? I know what my choice was and I think it paid off!
 
#16
Mine?

Extra leave pre-mobilisation to ensure I had no shortage of time for training and full use of my holiday allowance on my family, maintained all pension and private medical contributions whilst deployed to ensure my family remained covered, kept responsibilities for my bonuses while I was away to avoid me having to discuss it with the army and forwarded details of my pay increase to me while I was in theatre so that I could get my military pay adjusted accordingly.

Like I said, discuss it with them in plenty of time vs hit them with it last thing and leave them feeling like they have been kept in the dark? I know what my choice was and I think it paid off!
Bloody hell. The Duke....you sir, have some rather nice employers. And the lesson has not been lost on me. I shall tread, as you say, with caution and a little added finesse. As it is, I was told by the Unit I am interested in joining that it would be 24 months after completing Phase 2 training before I'd be ready for deployment....so I have some time to work on my grovelling and arrse-kissing. Again, thanks for the advice.
 
#17
Have a look in your staff handbook. One company I worked for had a small paragraph that said some thing on the lines of " We actively support membership of reserve forces etc".Probably because it looks good . As nobody but myself was a member it had never come up before , but they could't really deny me the support once I started waving it around.

I have found it usefull at job interviews to down play TA membership. Recruiters tend to assume that if they take you on , you will be called up next week, so you won't get the job . Down play it and look surprised as anyone else when the letter turns up.

I understand that if you suggest to your PSAO in casual discussion, that you really wouldn't mind being mobilised , you may find that the envelope arrives a lot faster, that you are compulsory mobilised and that your job is then protected.

Has anyone actually followed this route successfully?
 
#18
Mine?

Extra leave pre-mobilisation to ensure I had no shortage of time for training and full use of my holiday allowance on my family, maintained all pension and private medical contributions whilst deployed to ensure my family remained covered, kept responsibilities for my bonuses while I was away to avoid me having to discuss it with the army and forwarded details of my pay increase to me while I was in theatre so that I could get my military pay adjusted accordingly.

Like I said, discuss it with them in plenty of time vs hit them with it last thing and leave them feeling like they have been kept in the dark? I know what my choice was and I think it paid off!

What he said .... put yourself in your bosses shoes, where surprises about staff are bad. No surprises for him means you have a far better chance of getting what you want.

And, as has been said already, if you join the TA your employer will be told. Far better to come from you first. And spring an unexpected deployment on them and you risk them appealing at best, to dismissing you for being a lying scrote at worst.

Trouble is, you don't tend to hear stories about employers who don't support the TA as TA members aren't working for them. Fingers crossed your employer is on side, if not then you have no levers whatsoever to change their mind beyond asking nicely. Or leaving and finding another supportive boss. I am not aware of any figures but anecdotally there are far fewer TA friendly employers around than there used to be. I see an awful lot of the youngsters in my mob jack in their job to go on tour. They then jack the TA in to allow them to find a job.
 

The_Duke

LE
Moderator
#19
Have a look in your staff handbook. One company I worked for had a small paragraph that said some thing on the lines of " We actively support membership of reserve forces etc".Probably because it looks good . As nobody but myself was a member it had never come up before , but they could't really deny me the support once I started waving it around.

I have found it usefull at job interviews to down play TA membership. Recruiters tend to assume that if they take you on , you will be called up next week, so you won't get the job . Down play it and look surprised as anyone else when the letter turns up.

I understand that if you suggest to your PSAO in casual discussion, that you really wouldn't mind being mobilised , you may find that the envelope arrives a lot faster, that you are compulsory mobilised and that your job is then protected.
Has anyone actually followed this route successfully?
That is how it happens for 99% of mobilisations (less one or two truly compulsory mobilisations for pinch point trades).

OC/PSAO announce pending deployment, soldiers are requested to inform unit if they want to go,after confirming this with other interested parties such as family and employers. Soldier comes back and confirms family and employers would not object or appeal if they were to be mobilised.

If soldier is needed as part of the mobilising contingent (which may or may not all actually get deployed depending on injuries, general bad drills or changes innumbers required) then they will receive a letter stating they are being compulsory mobilised, and afforded what little employee protection there is to be had.

If the first time your employer knows anything about this is when they receive the mobilisation order 28 days out, they may be less than impressed and put an appeal in, which they will win. Well done, you have now lied to your employer and the TA, and managed to piss them both off without actually achieving what you wanted to.

Of course, that assumes that you did actually want to deploy, and had not just put your hand up to be in with the big boys, knowing full well that you would be subject to an appeal and not go!
 
#20
Of course, that assumes that you did actually want to deploy, and had not just put your hand up to be in with the big boys, knowing full well that you would be subject to an appeal and not go!
Wow. This happens?
 

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