SA80A2 described as "dead technology" by RM Officer in Globe & Laurel

Yes because Line only do the line stuff?!?!?!?
Have a read of his posts on his profile. It reads like a 14 yr old fanboy with a stiffy for one minute booties, the next paras. Badly in need of a new batch of Commando comics.
 
Seeing as it says 7.62 on the instruction manual you can probably assume its 7.62.
Well spotted! Actually, all my waffle about Brazilian FN FALs does seem to be answered by the English language instruction manual...:oops:
 

Fezzick

War Hero
It does it's job perfectly well. Yes at long range it lacks a certain penetrative power but frankly if I'm going to be engaging something at 300-400m that has a modicum of protection I'm going to be using something that has a bit more welly behind it! Also given the weight cost and the rate we go through ammunition in an average contact over there I'd rather have the increased ammo capacity thanks very much!
Good point. Out of interest how often do you end up engaging the enemy beyond about 400m?

Though a LIGHTER rifle would be nice.
I think the only one on the market that's noticeably lighter is the Steyr AUG, which has a much shorter effective range (about 400m max, I think, as opposed to 600) and is generally a bit girlier than the SA80. Rifles in general are heavy things - at least it's not an SMLE!
 
I think the only one on the market that's noticeably lighter is the Steyr AUG, which has a much shorter effective range (about 400m max, I think, as opposed to 600) and is generally a bit girlier than the SA80. Rifles in general are heavy things - at least it's not an SMLE!
The Aug is only about 500g lighter than the SA80 - fit both with the same sight system and a plastic mag, and I bet you wouldn't see much difference at all.

Barrel length is about 10mm shorter on the Aug, and muzzle velocity is about the same. I'm guessing 'effective range' is defined by each nation, but in the case of the Aug, the 1.5x sight is probably a factor.
 

untitled

Clanker
Yes because Line only do the line stuff?!?!?!?
time to pull your head out your arse. the 'elite' rm and paras are no longer 'elite.' they're still living in a fantasy land of beach raids and airborne drops. and before you ref. sfsg's drop recently, don't bother, i don't care. the rest of the paras are still overrated thickheaded wannabe's.

the line inf. is every bit as good as the penguins and rm's.

let the biting commence...
 
time to pull your head out your arse. the 'elite' rm and paras are no longer 'elite.' they're still living in a fantasy land of beach raids and airborne drops. and before you ref. sfsg's drop recently, don't bother, i don't care. the rest of the paras are still overrated thickheaded wannabe's.

the line inf. is every bit as good as the penguins and rm's.

let the biting commence...
I think you'll find AS AR was being sarcarstic towards 26backdoor, rather than actually saying what you thought he did.

Do pull your own head out of your own arrse, at your earliest convienence.
 
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swampmonster

Guest
How can he call it Dead Tech ? the EM2 that the SA80 grew from and the FN FAL all bounced about in the 1940's..And most of the "Modern" rifles are based on Tech from the same era.......Only problem I can see with the A2 at this time is the weight...and yes with the UGL on it gets a bit silly..nowt else.

What does he want?
 
How can he call it Dead Tech ? the EM2 that the SA80 grew from and the FN FAL all bounced about in the 1940's..And most of the "Modern" rifles are based on Tech from the same era.......Only problem I can see with the A2 at this time is the weight...and yes with the UGL on it gets a bit silly..nowt else.

What does he want?
Agreed, that and the fact that terry does ok with the AK, a weapon that's about as complicated as a crossbow and just about as old.
 
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swampmonster

Guest
Agreed, that and the fact that terry does ok with the AK, a weapon that's about as complicated as a crossbow and just about as old.
Very True,

Mr Terry does love his "Spray and Pray" thing to start a contact unless he is got an big old Bolt action jobbie to upset your day.....Got to love the fact the shites are using the Old Lee Enfield to F@ck us over, even a old Matini-Henery been found (not in working condition though)....charming!

Rifles of Advanced Age Remain in Use in Afghanistan - NYTimes.com

Funny did some reading about our last jaunts to Afghan seems we had the some problems with the Jezail in its day....at least the Sharp shooter and 338 is about, otherwise........
 
How can he call it Dead Tech ? the EM2 that the SA80 grew from and the FN FAL all bounced about in the 1940's..And most of the "Modern" rifles are based on Tech from the same era............
Although the SA80 is similar in appearance to the EM2 they are entirely different weapons. I believe the SA80s innards are more closely related to the AR18.
 
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swampmonster

Guest
Yes it is, i was more aiming at the Bullpup thing...concept etc...sorry should have explained better.
 

soldier.a

Old-Salt
Good point. Out of interest how often do you end up engaging the enemy beyond about 400m?

I think the only one on the market that's noticeably lighter is the Steyr AUG, which has a much shorter effective range (about 400m max, I think, as opposed to 600) and is generally a bit girlier than the SA80. Rifles in general are heavy things - at least it's not an SMLE!
Often. Contacts tend to happen either at very close range, or at the very extremities of the range of the weapon system they are using. The reason for this is that very few of the insurgents are actual die hard fanatics. They want to go home at the end of the day just as much as we do. By shooting from the extremity of their weapon systems they can be reasonably sure that they are also at the extremity of ours as well, trading effective fire against survivability. As they instigate the contacts the majority of the time they generally adopt the shoot and scoot mentality.

The problem for us the majority of the time is they are like ghosts. I think in the umpteen contacts I had, I only saw them 3 or 4 times. But then anyone can do that if your not going to press home an attack. I only ever saw them try to do that once on a Brimstone team and they came off very badly which is why they operate like they do.

The SA80 effective range is 300m (As it is generally for all 5.56 weapons). It's certainly possible to hit targets up to about 600m with the ACOG but generally 300m is your effective limit, it's only rated effective as a section weapon to 600m.
 
EM-2 was still leaps and bounds ahead of the time though. Auto, good calibre round (between 5.56 and 7.62) and I think it was equipped with a optical sight.
 
How can he call it Dead Tech ? the EM2 that the SA80 grew from and the FN FAL all bounced about in the 1940's..And most of the "Modern" rifles are based on Tech from the same era.......Only problem I can see with the A2 at this time is the weight...and yes with the UGL on it gets a bit silly..nowt else.
What does he want?
The fact that your unable to fire around the left hand side of cover without exposing a large part of your body is the SA80's biggest draw back as far as im concerned.
The next generation of individual weapon for the British Army needs to have the ability to be fired from either shoulder. Blokes have got by in theatre so far by adapting and giving the point man of assault teams weapons that can be fired from the left shoulder, ie shotguns, minimi, side arms etc. Its a massive disadvantage for our blokes within the FIBUA/CQB enviroment and something that needs to addressed.
No doubt there will be a few guys out there that would suggest that a weapon can only be zeroed properly to one shoulder. Which I acknowledge but dont accept as holding to much weight in the argument as no one is expecting to drop targets from 100+ using the weaker shoulder. All the firing from the weaker shoulder would be for the close stuff in compound work, alleyways etc.

Too many parts that rattle, a poorly placed magazine catch and it's endless need for (hourly) maintainance would be my other general grumbles.


I also think it's vital that the SA80's replacement for the forces needs to have the abiltiy to fire Simunition as does the M4, C8 etc. We like to pride ourselves on how professional and modern our army is, yet the only units deemed worthy enough to use simunition are the usual select few of the likes of SF/SFSG/ CP RMP etc. The line infantry guys are missing out on a vital training tool as far as im concerned and are missing a trick that would help sharpen a skill set that is often over looked by many.

The most telling point about the SA80 is that anyone in the HM Forces who can get away with using a different weapon system, does exactly that.
 
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swampmonster

Guest
I'm not knocking you for the "Handed" thing with the A2 but last thing I was taught on the CQB/Compound side of life was a "Plate to the front" stance the foregrip being the tool for this, even with the MK4 Osprey still a complete Git to get right into the shoulder unless prone and with no day sack on.....

But i have to admit, your right, if they can get the C8/M4 they do, I'm just not a fan of it.
 

omegahunter

War Hero
Having seen the US Marines doing CQB with M16A4's I'm definitely not sold that the SLR would be an improvement over the 80. I'd like to see an F2000 with a longer barrel, but I'm a little skeptical about the forward ejection of empty cases if there's a problem.
 

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