Discussion in 'Infantry' started by Technocratic_Turbine, Jun 14, 2007.

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  1. Just wondering what current/ex serving personnel here think of the SA80 branch of weapons?

    As far as I'm aware the 'standard' infantry assault rifle is the L85 IW or SA80A2. How does the rifle handle having been improved by Heckler & Koch to the A1 and other versions? Is it still plagued by problems?

    I've also read that the L86 LSW has largely/totally been replaced by the L110A1 FN Minimi. Criticism of the LSW beiing it has poor reliability and inability to deliver sustained automatic fire. The inability to sustain automatic fire is down to being magazine rather than belt fed. Also the weapon has been noted to become unreliable during hot or cold conditions. Can anyone here testify to that?

    The L22A1 Carbine was supposed to be used by tank crews but now it's only used by Apache helicopter pilots. It has a shorter barrel and the hand grip is vertical rather than a forward one. Yet it's not been produced in large quantities. How does it handle?

    According to the Wikipedia entry I found it states that in a issue of Jane's IDR (International Defence Review) it says other weapons tested included the Diemaco C7, Heckler & Koch G36, and Steyr Aug, all of which were surpassed by the L85A2 in both accuracy and reliability.

    I always imagined that the most suitable infantry rifles are the G36 or Steyr Aug. The one drawback with a bullpup rifle is that you can only fire it from one side, unless it ejects the casings forward. Has anyone tested/handled the G36/Steyr Aug? How do they compare to the SA80A2?


    Guardian Article

    Apologies if this topic has been covered in another thread, just interested in knowing what people think. I'm hoping to learn more too in the process.
  2. chrisg46

    chrisg46 LE Book Reviewer

    You might like to state your reason for being so curious, i have to admit i read this and think journo... no offence intended!
  3. Either that or a new sales rep for Guns'R'Us Plc :D
  4. The first thing you should learn is this:

    Without even slightly exaggerating, there are hundreds of threads on the SA80. Try reading them.
  5. I agree stinks of a journo, if not some sad civi that needs to get a life
  6. Eh, I hear it's a **** for stripping down but that's about it.

    Btw, if you're a journalist, do an article about me! I'm ******* brilliant! :D
  7. Lol none taken. Well I've been accused of being a journalist simply because of my curiousity (which is derived from wanting to learn more). I am a 'civi' as one put it, I can't serve because of a spinal 'condition' I have. I'd appreciate it if you could answer some of the questions I asked.

    Hmm plc..are you a shareholder :roll:

    I wouldn't be learning anything as I'm already aware of the search function thank you. Although I admit I should've used it and a lazy impulse befell me.

    True although many may not be relevant, depending on the topic regarding the SA80. Plus as you said there are 'hundreds' (both figuratively and literally) of threads regarding the SA80. However I believe I've found an apt one titled when we buy a new rifle should we buy off the shelf. Apologies for 'wasting your time', I doubt I'll get the same courtesy.

    Nice to meet you too. I won't cast any judgements on you.
  8. I love the A2! But couldnt eat a whole one.....
  9. Well less clogging by sand and dust must make it much more consumable.
  10. Toms always gripe about their kit. If you gave 'em an M16 type then they would complain that the barrel is too long in the standard model: making it crud for FISH and that the short barrel M4 version isn't accurate at range. If you give 'em 7.62 they complain that a reasonable amount of ammunition weighs an absolute TON, if it's 5.56 then the whinge is that you need to shoot your drugged-up Talib 8 million times before he realises how dead he iis.

    It is pretty good now actually. But it WAS pretty dire.

    The big boys at the puzzle palace decided that with the new weapon system being automatic, the new doctrine would be that there was enough firepower in the section without a belt fed machinegun as well.

    In the light of this the LSW was designed to provide rapid single round/ short burst suppression out to a greater range than the standard model. The advantage of this approach would be a greater commonality between the two weapons (making manufacture and maintainence much cheaper) and a reduced weight penalty.

    If you close your eyes and imagine REALLY hard, it almost makes sense. Almost! Unfortunately combat experience quickly proved the new doctrine to be utter, utter bollox. Fortunately the MOD types made a HUGE departure from their usual SOP and quietly admitted defeat and bought Minimi.
  11. chrisg46

    chrisg46 LE Book Reviewer

    Hmm, i will lend my thoughts then, but shall be cross if i see these in print elsewhere...

    SA80/LSW a1 was indeed sheeeite of the highest order. In hot conditions, rounds would expand in the chamber and not extract causing numerous problems. Needed special cleaning in sandy conditions too.
    I know from experience that in temperate the LSW firing pin would break after a reasonable amount of rounds fired. I also melted another lsw after 300 round fired in about 30 minutes once.
    A2 is much better, from a reliability pov. the sa80 series has always been a fantastically accurate weapon, but best suited for the ranges. A2 now rarely jams, but when it does, it is usually down to mongness of the firer, or an actual malfunction.
    LSW is not gone altogether, it is now being used as a cross between sniper rifle and assault rifle, which could actually work, given its accuracy.

    Never seen, used, or fired the aug, g36 or sa80k so cant comment. The aug is getting rather dated now though i believe.

    the above is of course entirely my own opinion, and could quite easily be wrong. Any unauthorised quote shall result in a hefty fine, made payable to the ABF and combat stress...
  12. Thank you for replying with some good stuff mate. It's interesting you note the complaints about the standard NATO 5.56mm and the other 7.62mm variants. Is this a debate going on now in the 'NATO' community regarding whether the standard bullet should be increased to a higher calibre, such as the 7.62mm? I understand that Russian made weapons such as the AK47, AK74, RPK74, PKM fire 7.62mm? Higher calibre means greater penetration but increased and at less velocity?

    I can understand the argument of having greater commonality between models, so that parts, ammo etc could be interchangeable but not having a dedicated fully automatic support weapon (belt fed and a larger ammo container) is rather befuddling. Especially considering that since WW2 the principle of 'covering fire' has proven very effective in giving suppressive fire; pinning down the enemy whilst giving fellow soldiers some breathing space.

    What do you make of such weapons as the G36 and AK5?

    Thanks too Chris. I understand people's waryness of snooping journalists, I can only give you assurances (which aren't verifiable) that I am not a journalist. I do have a big curiousity however, I try to learn something new whenever I can. I certainly have from this thread.

    Without wanting to ask too much, has there ever been times when you or others were out on operations with the SA80A1 and it would fail miserably? If so would the weapon be discarded in the field or brought back to 'base'. I'd imagine you wouldn't leave a weapon lying around, even if it's malfunctioned or defective but in the heat of battle it's extra weight.

    Are there other rifles you've tried which you would rather or are you fairly happy with the SA80A2? IIRC similar problems plagued the M16 after its inception in Vietnam. I believe the A2 was the variant which had fixed problems such as jamming.
  13. Folks, not meaning to be overly cautious about this chaps authenticity.
    But it may be worth checking his other threads that he has started.
    It all points towards someone researching for a book/film.

    You bet.
  14. The A2 is a cracking weapon ive just come back from helmand never had or any of the lads had a problem with it as long as u use loads of oil, But it does get heavy when u put a UGL and LLM on it :(
  15. This bloke smells like a bint's bits at the wrong time of the month.

    His last post displays either 'maxi-walt', or 'maxi-story hunting journocnut' tendencies, and if he ain't either, then why the bizarre almost fetishistic interest in big weapons???

    Tanks use bigger throbbers, and the cav like to big themselves up - go on over to the RAC forum and ask about the reliability of their thundering tools, weirdo.