SA80 Replacement on the distant horizon ?

[Effendi]

we could save a fortune if we just bought loads of these second hand, they are everywhere

View attachment 541590

Something like 70+ million last time I read anything about quantity produced.

 

[Effendi]

To you who have been in harms way, Regardless of weapon, which calibre is best in a firefight
5.56 or 7.62 mm

Sounds just like the pistol argument/conversation Americans have when drooling all over their .45ACP's and spitting on 9mm.

It don't matter, as long as you can hit the intended target.

 

[Bravo_Bravo]

It's a large part of why in the last 100 years, the UK has only had 3 frontline mainstream rifle cartridges (for rifles, not including .30-06 and 7.92 in machine guns, or stuff limited to home guard / home service / limited issue): .303 Mk.VII/7z, 7.62 NATO and 5.56 NATO. Even the Seppos have only had 1 more change that required a change in rifles (3 compatible flavours of .30-06, 7.62 NATO, 2 flavours of 5.56 that are one-way compatible).

We had .280 for a wee while...

Enfield designed EM-2 Bull-pup Rifle and prototypes

Historic Arms Resource Centre facility for British and Commonwealth Enfield and other Miniature calibre training and small-bore TARGET RIFLES (BSA- Birmingham Small Arms Co.), conversion units and accessories with representation of other nations' training rifles, plus Postal League competitions...

www.rifleman.org.uk

 

[Bravo_Bravo]

Stop repeating things you've heard the big boys say, the L1A1 was a decent rifle for its day and could deliver accurate fire out to 300m, however it was perfectly possibly to hit man sized targets at longer ranges. 500m was well within the capabilities of a good shot with an L1A1.

And if you understand Theory of a Group, you'll know that a poor shot might hit a target at a long range when a good shot might miss it...

 

[stoatman]

We had .280 for a wee while...

Enfield designed EM-2 Bull-pup Rifle and prototypes

Historic Arms Resource Centre facility for British and Commonwealth Enfield and other Miniature calibre training and small-bore TARGET RIFLES (BSA- Birmingham Small Arms Co.), conversion units and accessories with representation of other nations' training rifles, plus Postal League competitions...

www.rifleman.org.uk

A very wee while indeed. There were never more than 60-odd prototype rifles made and it was never issued. It didn't even get as far as full scale troop trials, let alone actually being issued to front-line inf...

 

[Bravo_Bravo]

A very wee while indeed. There were never more than 60-odd prototype rifles made and it was never issued. It didn't even get as far as full scale troop trials, let alone actually being issued to front-line inf...

AIUI it was taken into service as the Rifle, No. 9?
Uncle Sam then insisted on 7.62, and switched to .223...

 

[dingerr]

And if you understand Theory of a Group, you'll know that a poor shot might hit a target at a long range when a good shot might miss it...

That’s not group theory, that’s luck, or unlucky of you’re the enemy.

 

[CptDanjou]

And if you understand Theory of a Group, you'll know that a poor shot might hit a target at a long range when a good shot might miss it...

A good shot wont miss , an average one may do occasionally and a poor shot will eventually hit a target if enough lead is sent in the right direction.

 

[stoatman]

AIUI it was taken into service as the Rifle, No. 9?
Uncle Sam then insisted on 7.62, and switched to .223...

Very briefly. On the back of 60-odd prototypes. And never went further than that. If we want to include odd stuff in the system, there's also .276 Enfield in the P13 (1000-odd made for a full troop trial), and .30-06 (P17's in the home guard / training / possibly a touch of home service and possibly some Navy service), 6.5mm Arisaka for training and navy in WW1, and there's probably some other stuff "adopted". But I drew the line at front-line inf service to avoid all of that

 

[incendiarycutlery]

A very wee while indeed. There were never more than 60-odd prototype rifles made and it was never issued. It didn't even get as far as full scale troop trials, let alone actually being issued to front-line inf..

I’ve got a report of two prototype rifles used for operational trials in Malaya.

 

[CptDanjou]

Small group, weapon not properly zeroed, miss.

Large group weapon not properly zeroed and poor shot, some rounds may well hit.

You are missing the point here , a good shot knows where zero is and knows his DOPE. Youve not done much rifle shooting have you ?

 

[theoriginalphantom]

To you who have been in harms way, Regardless of weapon, which calibre is best in a firefight
5.56 or 7.62 mm

Both

and some .50

and some 105

 

[stoatman]

You are missing the point here , a good shot knows where zero is and knows his DOPE. Youve not done much rifle shooting have you ?

"Dope" is a Seppo term.

And rifles get knocked about and go out of zero all the time...

 

[CptDanjou]

"Dope" is a Seppo term.

And rifles get knocked about and go out of zero all the time...

They may get knocked around but quality sights are rarely affected plus checking your zero is easy enough.

 

[CptDanjou]

I'm not missing the point.
What i said is correct.

Correct for amateurs who never check zero and hope for the best.

 

[anglo]

Both

and some .50

and some 105

I phased the question wrong,
Do you have to be nearer to the enemy for the 5.56 rounds to be as effective as the 7.62,
does using different calibres make any differences in a firefight

 

[CptDanjou]

Nope.

You're annoyed that I'm right, but enough of the threadcrap

Zero will shift with different air Pressure, temperature and humidity ,considerably at longer distances, look it up. (I doubt it will be in your TA theory handbook)

 

[Cold_Collation]

Your point being, when my post was referring to the accuracy of the L1A1?

Were you trying to get some use out of all that TA knowledge that you never got to put into practice? Or were you just trying to be a smartarse?

A good mate of mine and I both went through Basic using the SLR. By then, most were on the way to being shot out. The rear sight on mine, for instance, would wander up and down the tangent with the recoil.

A lot of people used to compare the SLR's accuracy unfavourably with the Lee Enfield that preceded it and the SA80 that followed it.

Some years on from Basic, same mate was somewhere in Africa and was given the opportunity to play with an FN FAL in as-new condition.

He described it as a delight to shoot. The buffer spring meant that the recoil was less than he remembered and very predictable/manageable, and the accuracy of an almost-new example was a revelation.

 

[arcticfox042]

Zero will shift with different air Pressure, temperature and humidity ,considerably at longer distances, look it up. (I doubt it will be in your TA theory handbook)

It's a miracle that we hit anything in 82 after zeroing on Ascension Island in the tropical heat..........

 

[Simmerit]

Must say I’ve enjoyed this thread so far and it’s a shame it appears to be descending into the usual b0ll0cks with the entry of a new poster.

I remember through the haze of time some of the justifications supporting the move from the SLR to the SA-80 but I can’t remember and of the battlefield arguments for the change as it’s bloody years ago.

whats the battlefield argument for binning the SA-80 and moving to a different weapon/calibre?

just remembered one of the justifications which was clearly b0ll0cks which was 5.56 will take out more than one soldier from the battlefield as the injured soldier will have to be extracted. Worked well as an argument in Afghan......