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SA80 Replacement on the distant horizon ?

Cplcorbyn

Swinger
Guys, I think I speak for all of us when I say let’s not waste anymore of the taxpayers money on purchasing IWs. It’s time we focussed on improving our influence skills and utilising the weapons of love, understanding and tolerance. The war fighting models of yesteryear belong in the past as do the tools of their time. Let’s repair the damage of the brexit vote with a kinder way of settling our disputes.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Agreed on the bold above, it would be far too easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

This is all from memory (a paperback I borrowed on exercise from a guy who bought it in a PX in 1989, so I can't be exact). In WW2 the US Army held a review of their infantry marksmanship training, veterans of the various theatres met back in the US and discussed their combat shooting experience. Troops from the European theatre advocated abandoning teaching of firing from the sitting position, as none of them had ever used it in action. At which point, GIs from the Pacific said hold your horses, we use that all the time in jungle fighting, especially friring over undergrowth / crops in defence. Sitting position was retained in the US manual.

Training shouldn't be only about what one theatre requires, it should cover all the bases.
Jungle? Sitting and squatting, which hadn't been given much consideration previously.

Lying down in mud and leeches/other creepy-crawlies, or below the level of being able to see anything? Not ideal.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Guys, I think I speak for all of us when I say let’s not waste anymore of the taxpayers money on purchasing IWs. It’s time we focussed on improving our influence skills and utilising the weapons of love, understanding and tolerance. The war fighting models of yesteryear belong in the past as do the tools of their time. Let’s repair the damage of the brexit vote with a kinder way of settling our disputes.
Meghan Markle Walt.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
Jungle? Sitting and squatting, which hadn't been given much consideration previously.

Lying down in mud and leeches/other creepy-crawlies, or below the level of being able to see anything? Not ideal.
Actually I think it was squatting rather than sitting position now, your mention just triggered the grey cells! In my defence it was over thirty years ago I read the book (about the WW2 GI), and I've never seen it since, nor do I remember the title or the author's name....
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
Guys, I think I speak for all of us when I say let’s not waste anymore of the taxpayers money on purchasing IWs. It’s time we focussed on improving our influence skills and utilising the weapons of love, understanding and tolerance. The war fighting models of yesteryear belong in the past as do the tools of their time. Let’s repair the damage of the brexit vote with a kinder way of settling our disputes.
Indeed Comrade Corporal, this strategy allied with a bulk order purchase of Makarov 9mm short pistols, ideal for Commissars Empathy Engagement Facilitators to deliver the coup-de-grace neck shots to Tories reactionary running dogs will surely enable a kinder, gentler warfare...
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Actually I think it was squatting rather than sitting position now, your mention just triggered the grey cells! In my defence it was over thirty years ago I read the book (about the WW2 GI), and I've never seen it since, nor do I remember the title or the author's name....
It was shown to me briefly as a fire position during Basic, but only as a one-sentence comment along the lines of, "You might want to be doing this when in the jungle, to stay out of the shít on the ground."

That was right at the very beginning, the 'this is your rifle' stage. We never practised it.

Its utility was also mentioned again after Borneo and Vietnam.

Sitting was/is useful on slopes. Prone/downhill is a bit limiting. :-D
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
It was shown to me briefly as a fire position during Basic, but only as a one-sentence comment along the lines of, "You might want to be doing this when in the jungle, to stay out of the shít on the ground."

That was right at the very beginning, the 'this is your rifle' stage. We never practised it.

Its utility was also mentioned again after Borneo and Vietnam.

Sitting was/is useful on slopes. Prone/downhill is a bit limiting. :-D
I got quite good shooting from the squatting position (easier on my knackered knees than kneeling) with L85. Very easy to keep balance, and hardly any recoil.
 
I got quite good shooting from the squatting position (easier on my knackered knees than kneeling) with L85. Very easy to keep balance, and hardly any recoil.
I was much more accurate in the squatting position than sitting / kneeling or standing.
 

PhotEx

On ROPS
On ROPs
Probably because someone is on a back hander , the best AR triggers on the market are less than half that trade price in singles.

Captive market, Civilians can’t buy full auto trigger groups, it’s naughty and gets You the gloves and lube interviews.
 
we very quickly learned that a left hand grip on the L85 threw your shots off to the left.
News to me (not that I'm disagreeing) - but it never stopped me consistently dropping the first plate in a falling plate match, nor debarred me from marksman scores at APWT, which - to me at least - suggests it's not critical for a workaday / close enough for government work infantry shot, even if it's a barrier to tip-top scores in serious competition.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
you mean like the Challenger 2 is just an ‘improved’ Challenger 1?
Not a new tank that bears an outline resemblance and should have had a completely different name.
Calling it L85A2 was a ruse to save political embarrassment after the L85 received so much bad press.
The A2 had the same body (albeit modified), same TMH, trigger mech, furniture, sights; new barrel, breech block, cocking handle.

So no. It's a straight development of the original L85A1. Stop talking cock about guns.
 
The A2 had the same body (albeit modified), same TMH, trigger mech, furniture, sights; new barrel, breech block, cocking handle.

So no. It's a straight development of the original L85A1. Stop talking cock about guns.
Indeed: IIRC, Ian Mcullomb went into detail about the differences in a Forgotten Weapon video.

It amounted to some Serious Fettlin' (no 'G') - by experienced fettlers, but no fundamental design changes were made.
 
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Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
Indeed: IIRC, Ian Mcullomb went into detail about the differences in a Forgotten Weapon video.

It amounted to some Serious Fettlin' (no 'G') -by experienced fettlers, but no fundamental design changes were made.
The funny is for no G.
 
you mean like the Challenger 2 is just an ‘improved’ Challenger 1?
Not a new tank that bears an outline resemblance and should have had a completely different name.
Calling it L85A2 was a ruse to save political embarrassment after the L85 received so much bad press.

ETA: Disagree away, questions were asked when it was found the ‘improvements’ were costing more than brand new rifles. Unsurprising really, the ‘SA80A2‘ was little more than a G36 action reworked into SA80 clothes.

No.

Challenger 1 was FV4030/4

Challenger 2 is FV4034

I’m sure you’re an expert on nomenclature (like everything else) and fully understand the significant differences.
 
News to me (not that I'm disagreeing) - but it never stopped me consistently dropping the first plate in a falling plate match, nor debarred me from marksman scores at APWT, which - to me at least - suggests it's not critical for a workaday / close enough for government work infantry shot, even if it's a barrier to tip-top scores in serious competition.
<banter on> But did you hit the plate you were aiming for and what about the other 7 plates? :D <banter off>

Agreed - we were looking at competition shooting accuracy requirements - rather different to APWT blat-and-hope-near-enough stuff. The left hand gripping rather than just supporting was enough to cause a miss to the left of a fig 11/fig 12 at 300m prone.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
you mean like the Challenger 2 is just an ‘improved’ Challenger 1?
Not a new tank that bears an outline resemblance and should have had a completely different name.
Calling it L85A2 was a ruse to save political embarrassment after the L85 received so much bad press.

ETA: Disagree away, questions were asked when it was found the ‘improvements’ were costing more than brand new rifles. Unsurprising really, the ‘SA80A2‘ was little more than a G36 action reworked into SA80 clothes.
You could make the same point about an early and a late Sherman. And yes, you could, before you come back with something contradictory. The number of crossover parts from a Cr1 to a Cr2 wasn't great but there was a clear lineage.

This is the video that @Stonker is referring to, I think. Note that the A2 is built out of the A1.

(NB: Stonker - left-handed cocking is also to allow visual inspection of the chamber, apparently.)
 
You could make the same point about an early and a late Sherman. And yes, you could, before you come back with something contradictory. The number of crossover parts from a Cr1 to a Cr2 wasn't great but there was a clear lineage.

This is the video that @Stonker is referring to, I think. Note that the A2 is built out of the A1.

(NB: Stonker - left-handed cocking is also to allow visual inspection of the chamber, apparently.)

He even makes the very clear point that the A3 is just a change to the upper reciever, but I guess Photex is running around stating that it is a new weapon entirely.
 

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