SA80 Replacement on the distant horizon ?

[stoatman]

I cant remember what he was supposed to have done ? I dont recall it being too bad , at least no where as bad as what the U.S do in the name of assisting foreign countries .

He'd apparently been smuggling controlled components from the US to the Sabre production line in the UK in the false bottoms of shipping containers, in fairly substantial quantities.

Probably every single Sabre UK rifle in Europe has some of them in, but it's unprovable.

 

[CptDanjou]

None of the UK bbl mfg's could produce the quantities of bbls required for a sensible price compared to importing them.

And I don't think any of the civvy mfg's are making all the parts in-house or locally.

Sassen could , they currently supply A.I amongst other , everything other than triggers and plastic parts are currently being made in the UK , upper & lowers are generally billet , the Krauts make a ton for the civilian market , check out Hera, Schmeiser and Oberland arms , Schmeisser use forged uppers & lowers.

 

[CptDanjou]

He'd apparently been smuggling controlled components from the UK to the Sabre production line in the UK in the false bottoms of shipping containers, in fairly substantial quantities.

Probably every single Sabre UK rifle in Europe has some of them in, but it's unprovable.

I have had one of his AR`s a while back , gulp.

 

[Cold_Collation]

AR15 M4 variants are not difficult to produce with in small modern CNC workshops ,a 5 axis milling machine can knock out most components , the UK has at least two rifle barrel manufactures and numerous companies with injection moulding capabilities , AR15`s are already being built in the UK for the civilian sporting market as well as some sect 5 ones for export .

Trust me, none of the bits are hard to produce - at all. Nor are they hard to produce consistently to a good spec. It wasn't that we couldn't do it for the SA80. The driver of the SA80's problems was having the design constantly value-engineered.

Forgotten Weapons has done some videos on this that are with a watch. Qualitatively, the earlier designs of what became the issue weapon were superior but the constant shaving of a little bit of cost here, the saving of a little bit of money there was the cause of much of the problem.

(I've included at the bottom the video relating to the XL60. The others in the series are worth a watch in terms of the history. They're both interesting and depressing.)

But, to come back to the thread topic, properly, there are plenty of companies in the UK that can make the components of a rifle - or an MBT/MICV, to address @incendiarycutlery's point.

The question is whether we should go down that path, or whether we farm out whatever comes next to the Germans or the Belgians or the Canadians or the Americans or whomever. We're already a sub-80,000 'army'. Actually, we're a defence force.

To comment on @QRK2's list: the SA80 was built here but a long time ago. BAE bought and then divested H&K as non-core. (I'm assuming that H&K got the SA80 make-it-work-properly work off the back of the BAE involvement/absorption of ROF/held intellectual property?)

The L7s built by Manroy - Manroy is now part of FN. Everything else on that list, as he notes, came from elsewhere.

That video:

 

[Cold_Collation]

Small Arms Ammunition

BAE Systems can produce over one million rounds per day of Small Arms Ammunition in 5.56mm and 7.62mm NATO calibres including ball, tracer and blank natures. Packaging configurations include carton, link and clip to suit operational and training requirements.

www.baesystems.com

Hoist, petard, etc.

We for a while were out of the small arms ammunition business. I'm glad to see we're not, and thanks for sharing. It should never have been allowed to happen.

Correction: we were out of the propellant business, having to import from a BAE-owned factory in Holland. Is that still the case?

 

[RTU'd]

Small & discreet.

 

[stoatman]

Small & discreet.
View attachment 541824

Surprisingly large actually.

This is more like it

 

[Bubbles_Barker]

By being half a kilo lighter and 300mm shorter?

See here for a personal indication of how long the SLR is/was:

Anybody who thinks an SA80 isn't shorter is, well, somewhat ill-informed shall we say. It took a lot of skill to fire an SLR well - it's long and heavy, not hugely accurate and took a lot of practice, which a lot of soldiers didn't get, cue @Stonker. It does look the part though, and the terminal effect was pretty good.

Roll on SA80A1, A2, A3 and suddenly I can hit the target almost every time instead of just 2 out of 3, even without a SUSAT. I've never liked the look of it though, not that it matters.

 

[Bubbles_Barker]

Small & discreet.
View attachment 541824

Now you're talking - had those in NI, complete with natty briefcase on the initial issue.

 

[CptDanjou]

Trust me, none of the bits are hard to produce - at all. Nor are they hard to produce consistently to a good spec. It wasn't that we couldn't do it for the SA80. The driver of the SA80's problems was having the design constantly value-engineered.

I dont need convincing , I`m involved in building them .

 

[PhotEx]

He'd apparently been smuggling controlled components from the US to the Sabre production line in the UK in the false bottoms of shipping containers, in fairly substantial quantities.

Probably every single Sabre UK rifle in Europe has some of them in, but it's unprovable.

iirc, there was the small matter of 40,000 M4's sold to some sandle wearing people on the wrong side, or they may have been on the right side, but by the time he delivered them, they were on the wrong side.

 

[Cold_Collation]

I dont need convincing , I`m involved in building them .

In which case, I strongly advocate that the British Army's future battle rifle be manufactured here.

I'll PM you the address to send a good bottle of whisky to.

 

[PhotEx]

In which case, I strongly advocate that the British Army's future battle rifle be manufactured here.

Why?
Diemaco have supplied many thousands of C8's to HMG for a decade now.

You just absolutely know, the minute production in the UK was a thing, every grubby Politician and his dog would be angling for production to be set up in a converted chicken factory in his shire, with the local illiterate unemployable Gogs making them.

 

[Cold_Collation]

Why?
Diemaco have supplied many thousands of C8's to HMG for a decade now.

You just absolutely know, the minute production in the UK was a thing, every grubby Politician and his dog would be angling for production to be set up in a converted chicken factory in his shire, with the local illiterate unemployable Gogs making them.

This:

I'm involved in building them .

I'd crossed the threshold into humour, having been uber-geeking for a while.

 

[dingerr]

It's inefficient, slow and disturbs the position. It's simply bad ergonomic design that shouldn't need to be coped around.

And what you're taught sounds very odd indeed, requiring you to reduce your control of the wpn due to moving your right hand so as to give it a reach-around...

As a user, I disagree.

 

[CptDanjou]

He'd apparently been smuggling controlled components from the US to the Sabre production line in the UK in the false bottoms of shipping containers, in fairly substantial quantities.

Probably every single Sabre UK rifle in Europe has some of them in, but it's unprovable.

I just this minute heard from a reliable source he`s still around in the UK , he never did time but came very close , FBI and UK cops raided him, illegal import/export of mainly ITAR parts.

 

[stoatman]

I just this minute heard from a reliable source he`s still around in the UK , he never did time but came very close , FBI and UK cops raided him, illegal import/export of mainly ITAR parts.

In that case, I shall give my source a good horsewhipping when I next see him

 

[CptDanjou]

In that case, I shall give my source a good horsewhipping when I next see him

My source did say theres still masses of rumors going around the firearms industry about him , its a non story if very little happened

 

[QRK2]

Small & discreet.
View attachment 541824

Too f'ing small sometimes, had a short but uncomfortable time on the ranges once when we couldn't account for one. Someone had put an ammo container down on top of it.

 

[stoatman]

My source did say theresn still masses of rumors going around the firearms industry about him , its a non story if very little happened

Or CPS screwed it up so much that it got thrown out, like a lot of the stuff they had on Laidler?