SA80 Replacement on the distant horizon ?

[CptDanjou]

I just had the following info on a trade email ....

"I am now in direct communication with the Infantry Trials and Development Unit who are at the very early stages of looking for the replacement for the SA80 and other military firearm systems. It is my ambition to ensure that the Armed Forces have the very best future capabilities and I look to be able to better connect the Trade with such opportunities. Whether you are already a major supplier or have specialist innovation talents, please let me know so that I can ensure you are kept up to date with requirements."

Interesting , what`s the betting everyone will get a HK416 IN 5-10 years?

 

[The Assassin]

Send Logistical Requirement

 

[Tartan_Terrier]

I just had the following info on a trade email ....

"I am now in direct communication with the Infantry Trials and Development Unit who are at the very early stages of looking for the replacement for the SA80 and other military firearm systems. It is my ambition to ensure that the Armed Forces have the very best future capabilities and I look to be able to better connect the Trade with such opportunities. Whether you are already a major supplier or have specialist innovation talents, please let me know so that I can ensure you are kept up to date with requirements."

Interesting , what`s the betting everyone will get a HK416 IN 5-10 years?

Maybe, it'll be in 6.8mm though.

The Army’s SAW and M4 replacement is headed to troops by 2022

The new weapons will bring the 6.8mm projectile into the U.S. military inventory for the first time.

www.defensenews.com

 

[History_Man]

I just had the following info on a trade email ....

"I am now in direct communication with the Infantry Trials and Development Unit who are at the very early stages of looking for the replacement for the SA80 and other military firearm systems. It is my ambition to ensure that the Armed Forces have the very best future capabilities and I look to be able to better connect the Trade with such opportunities. Whether you are already a major supplier or have specialist innovation talents, please let me know so that I can ensure you are kept up to date with requirements."

Interesting , what`s the betting everyone will get a HK416 IN 5-10 years?

Or, everyone goes to the Colt C7/C8 (the RM won't be 'special' then though... )

 

[Portree Kid]

I just had the following info on a trade email ....

"I am now in direct communication with the Infantry Trials and Development Unit who are at the very early stages of looking for the replacement for the SA80 and other military firearm systems. It is my ambition to ensure that the Armed Forces have the very best future capabilities and I look to be able to better connect the Trade with such opportunities. Whether you are already a major supplier or have specialist innovation talents, please let me know so that I can ensure you are kept up to date with requirements."

Interesting , what`s the betting everyone will get a HK416 IN 5-10 years?

I would take that bet

Unless their is an immediate Operational necessity - It wont happen in 5 - 10 years.

 

[Jorrocks]

7.62mm Self. Loading. Rifle.

There, I said it.

 

[JackSofty]

Any idea as to whether it has been trialled configured for 7.62 (the HK416) as info thus far received is excluvely relating to 5.56?


Sent from my karzi while losing several pounds

 

[incendiarycutlery]

Or, everyone goes to the Colt C7/C8 (the RM won't be 'special' then though... )

What’s the bet that if the rest of the armed forces adopt the C7/C8 the special forces adopt something else?

 

[alfred_the_great]

What’s the bet that if the rest of the armed forces adopt the C7/C8 the special forces adopt something else?

Dead cert.

 

[stoatman]

Or, everyone goes to the Colt C7/C8 (the RM won't be 'special' then though... )

I would put money on that...

It's the easiest way to do it: the rifles have already been in the system for decades and are now being issued more widely anyway to RM. So it's an existing programme that can just be expanded over timeso would be a possible way to avoid tendering nonsense etc (although I'd hope that the UK is now out of the EU tendering rules anyway, but there's always HM Govt there to hamstring itself on that front).

Also: produced in Canada rather than US or EU, limiting either of them getting funny about anything. Canada's a much more reliable friend than either of those 2...

 

[dingerr]

I just had the following info on a trade email ....

"I am now in direct communication with the Infantry Trials and Development Unit who are at the very early stages of looking for the replacement for the SA80 and other military firearm systems. It is my ambition to ensure that the Armed Forces have the very best future capabilities and I look to be able to better connect the Trade with such opportunities. Whether you are already a major supplier or have specialist innovation talents, please let me know so that I can ensure you are kept up to date with requirements."

Interesting , what`s the betting everyone will get a HK416 IN 5-10 years?

Sounds suspect to me. ITDU get given the stuff to test. It’s for the IPT (or whatever they are called now) to establish the requirement and fulfil it for trials - quite straight forward if it’s an off the shelf buy or more complicated if it requires a design and build process.

If that email is from someone in ITDU I suspect they are looking for sweeteners from suppliers.

 

[jrwlynch]

Any idea as to whether it has been trialled configured for 7.62 (the HK416) as info thus far received is excluvely relating to 5.56?

If you want it in 7.62mm then it's the HK417 you're after.

 

[stoatman]

To be honest, I'm not sure if the piston AR's like the HK 416/417 are much more than a marketing gimmick in practice... I did own a piston AR upper (in 7.62x39) and wasn't convinced by it over the normal gas system, which is really smooth.

Obvs if you're essentially mag dumping 750+ rounds in short order like that famous contact in Afghan which raised questions about the M4 then sure... A piston will keep a lot of heat and kak out of the action that would otherwise have been dumped into it. But at any reasonable rate of fire this isn't an issue.

 

[alfred_the_great]

Based simply on some powerpoints a mate sent - in a “look at this” - I suspect what ever is chosen will be 6.8mm and/or whatever calibre the US have already chosen.

 

[4(T)]

I just had the following info on a trade email ....

"I am now in direct communication with the Infantry Trials and Development Unit who are at the very early stages of looking for the replacement for the SA80 and other military firearm systems. It is my ambition to ensure that the Armed Forces have the very best future capabilities and I look to be able to better connect the Trade with such opportunities. Whether you are already a major supplier or have specialist innovation talents, please let me know so that I can ensure you are kept up to date with requirements."

Interesting , what`s the betting everyone will get a HK416 IN 5-10 years?

Given that it took about 40 years to procure the SA80 system, I'm not holding my breath waiting for initial requirements to translate into issued hardware.

I can't see any new small arms being seriously considered until the US decide what the new calibre/ammo type is going to be. Lets hope they don't fnuck it up a third time!

I reckon that L85 will be kept on the road for another 20 years os so just by dint of scrapping weapons freed up by draw-down in the army. If they built 250k(?) rifles back in the day, then there are going to be plenty of gats available for breaking/conversion to supply an army of 50-60k that doesn't do much shooting anyway...

 

[theoriginalphantom]

No mention of plasma rifles ?

Pah.

 

[CptDanjou]

I doubt there will be a calibre change , the right 5.56 ammunition can do the job.

 

[rampant]

I would put money on that...

It's the easiest way to do it: the rifles have already been in the system for decades and are now being issued more widely anyway to RM. So it's an existing programme that can just be expanded over timeso would be a possible way to avoid tendering nonsense etc (although I'd hope that the UK is now out of the EU tendering rules anyway, but there's always HM Govt there to hamstring itself on that front).

Also: produced in Canada rather than US or EU, limiting either of them getting funny about anything. Canada's a much more reliable friend than either of those 2...

CZ are looking to buy Colt lock, stock and barrel

CZ looking to buy Colt | Army Rumour Service (arrse.co.uk)

I'll wait to see the outcome of the current 6.8mm trials in the US before anything

 

[stoatman]

I doubt there will be a calibre change , the right 5.56 ammunition can do the job.

Unless the Seppos decide on a change in the next few years, 5.56 is here to stay.

IMHO all these super calibres have been going to be the next big thing for 20+ years now, and they're all marginal improvements with certain other tradeoffs. The question is always: what is the value-add, and what are the costs associated with it (both financial and in other aspects of performance)?

It's a large part of why in the last 100 years, the UK has only had 3 frontline mainstream rifle cartridges (for rifles, not including .30-06 and 7.92 in machine guns, or stuff limited to home guard / home service / limited issue): .303 Mk.VII/7z, 7.62 NATO and 5.56 NATO. Even the Seppos have only had 1 more change that required a change in rifles (3 compatible flavours of .30-06, 7.62 NATO, 2 flavours of 5.56 that are one-way compatible).

Hell, the changeover from .303 to 7.62 in the regular army took from 1957 (first widespread SLR issue) until IIRC the early 70's when the last frontline No.4 T's were replaced with L42's, so around 15 years in frontline service.

Here's Cyprus in the 60's, 7.62mm SLR alongside .303 BREN as an example:

 

[Filthy_contract]

Given that it took about 40 years to procure the SA80 system, I'm not holding my breath waiting for initial requirements to translate into issued hardware.

I can't see any new small arms being seriously considered until the US decide what the new calibre/ammo type is going to be. Lets hope they don't fnuck it up a third time!

I reckon that L85 will be kept on the road for another 20 years os so just by dint of scrapping weapons freed up by draw-down in the army. If they built 250k(?) rifles back in the day, then there are going to be plenty of gats available for breaking/conversion to supply an army of 50-60k that doesn't do much shooting anyway...

As a corollary, didn't it take about 15 years for the change over from the Lee Enfield No 4 Mk1 to the L1A1 (SLR) from the early 1950s to the late 1960s, across the Services, both regular and reserve units? The roll out of the L85 took the best part a decade; I eventually converted to the L85 (from the SMG) in 1994. So any IWS - once trialled, selected and manufactured - will taken a long time to be issued, especially as we will be going into a period of post-Covid fiscal strangulation.