SA80 rail to picatinny/weaver rail conversion question

#1
Does anyone know if there is a rail conversion product out there that will fit onto the current british SA80 sight rail and covert it to a weaver picatinny rail system to fit most of the decent optics that are available? Depending on what I am doing I either run an eotech or a Trijicon ACOG 4X, and was thinking if I ever decided to do a tour or two again just for the hell of it, it would be a waste not to use them.
 
#4
Zulu,
before wasting any more money, it may be prudent to check the AESPs to see if it is permitted to fit non-issue sights to service weapons.
(to save you a walk, the answer is no).

Of course, if you have a sight that may be better than SUSAT and costs less than a quid, give the IPT a bell in Andover, they may be interested...

HTH
 
#6
As the new AI AW-50 and the long range sniper rifle has the picatinny rail fitted, I think that the rifle may eventually get converted if it stays in service for long enough! The SUSAT was a good sight in it's day but unfortunalty that day was in the late eighties. Any glance around a decent armoury will find the new industry standard sights are all mounted on the picatinny.
 
#7
SlipperSapper, good point, but its just a pity that the way the British Army operates sometimes, if they do ever do convert the rifle, we will probably be long past our military days.

Nige, it is true, they can be quite funny about using non issue kit, which is a pity because there is so much better equipment out there. My Trijicon ACOG is way better than a SUSAT but unfortunately is doesnt cost less than a quid.

and Matlot..I cannot believe you just suggested I use 'black maskers' to secure a weapon sight to a rifle!!!

I currently use an Bushmhster M4 and/or a Minimi, both of which come with picatinny rails already. Since I am out it isnt really that big a deal, I just thought it might be nice to use my own equipment if I get called up or decide to volunteer for a tour, you know ...if I get a bit bored
 
#8
Zulu,

If HM Forces allowed you to use your own equipment (as in weapons, not personal kit), do you honestly think anyone would use an SA80?
 
#9
I am not looking to use my my own weapons, those aare issued and will have to be left in Iraq when I am done here. I was asking about attaching my own weapon sights to the SA80, they attach using the picatinny rail system.
What I wanted to find was a piece of kit that attached to the british rail and had a picatinny rail on top thereby converting in order to use picatinny mounted sights.
 
#10
Straight answer (as you've obviously missed the hint from Nige).

You are not allowed to use your own sighting system on the L85A2, or any other issue weapon system.

This I believe is for many reasons, some of which are,

- Legal reasons. You are not allowed to modify your issue weapon IAW the Geneva Accord.

- In theatre support. If you break your Gucci sight then where are the armourers going to get spares for your unsupported sighting system?

- Training reasons. You are trained to use a weapons sight that is common to your colleagues, which means if the sh!t hit the fan they would be able to use your weapon.

- Practical reasons. To stop numpties buying the pretty sight they saw Arnie using on his gat in the latest Hollywood yawnfest which may be great for tarting around a film set with but has little practical application on the modern battlefield. Its bad enough people buying Gucci assault vests that issue magazines don't fit into properly.
 
#11
Brugger & Thomet make a picatinny rail conversion for the SA80.........wonder who buys those hmmmmm! There is also a nice silencer that fits onto the SA80 which I think also comes from the same firm, I saw this demo'ed in the USA. Silencer is a bit of an overkill expression, but it does allow you to be in the same room without ear defenders when a few shots are fired without losing both eardrums.

As to not fitting kit to your gat, I would assume it depends on your CO, OC, RSM, CSM. A lot of kit is used that is not purchased by the MOD and as long as it works, who gives a ......... We used to fit pachmayer grips, extended safeties and carry 20 round mags for the Browning, the OC whinged for a while about being British and cricket but he came around. Our armourer quite liked doing our modifications, mainly because our components were better quality than the issue stuff.

http://www.brugger-thomet.ch/
 
#12
To echo advice,it is forbidden to illegally modify S/As of any nature due to the risk of malfunction/misfire resulting in injury/death to the user or those nearby.
Can see where your coming from,same problem with SLRs and singlepoint sight in 70s.
Try official channels and by the time its approved or not you'll be too old to care!

Black maskers...........................................
 
#13
TheHelpfulStacker said:
Straight answer (as you've obviously missed the hint from Nige).

You are not allowed to use your own sighting system on the L85A2, or any other issue weapon system.

This I believe is for many reasons, some of which are,

- Legal reasons. You are not allowed to modify your issue weapon IAW the Geneva Accord.

- In theatre support. If you break your Gucci sight then where are the armourers going to get spares for your unsupported sighting system?

- Training reasons. You are trained to use a weapons sight that is common to your colleagues, which means if the sh!t hit the fan they would be able to use your weapon.

- Practical reasons. To stop numpties buying the pretty sight they saw Arnie using on his gat in the latest Hollywood yawnfest which may be great for tarting around a film set with but has little practical application on the modern battlefield. Its bad enough people buying Gucci assault vests that issue magazines don't fit into properly.
I did get the hint , I was merely explaining again for Matlot that I wasnt looking to use my own weapons, only the Sights that I currently use.

Legal reasons...a few of the other nations here seem to modify there weapons so I am not sure about that, I dont see how fitting a vertical foregrip or a better sight contravenes the geneva accord.
support reasons I can understand but this isnt some pretty sight that arnie used in some crap film, it is a combat sight made for use on a battlefield, even issued in some units in the american army, and it is rather rugged and sturdy, I know mine has had a beating out here in Iraq and survived with no problems.

I do see what you are getting at and obviously you can't make your weapon suit you in the British army I will let it drop. I am not currently serving anymore and no plans to re enlist any time soon, it was merely a thought.
Thanks for your responses some valid points some not.
 
#14
#15
The percentage of SUSAT to iron sight is about to increase in favour of SUSAT, the MOD have finally realised you are just as likely to get into a firefight as a RLC supply specalist as a member of Recce platoon, the result of the 360 degree battlefield. I think the matter of litigation will also favour the SUSAT ensuring that guys can correctly identify the target they are about to engage as being hostile.
In my opinion it should have happened a long time ago, but as always all sense was brushed under the carpet in favour of saving £100 per weapon unit.....
 
#16
With all the cut backs in the Infantry since the introduction of the SUSAT you'd think there would be a huge pile of them in a depot somewhere.....
 
#17
alex_b said:
Brugger & Thomet make a picatinny rail conversion for the SA80.........wonder who buys those hmmmmm! There is also a nice silencer that fits onto the SA80 which I think also comes from the same firm, I saw this demo'ed in the USA. Silencer is a bit of an overkill expression, but it does allow you to be in the same room without ear defenders when a few shots are fired without losing both eardrums.

As to not fitting kit to your gat, I would assume it depends on your CO, OC, RSM, CSM. A lot of kit is used that is not purchased by the MOD and as long as it works, who gives a ......... We used to fit pachmayer grips, extended safeties and carry 20 round mags for the Browning, the OC whinged for a while about being British and cricket but he came around. Our armourer quite liked doing our modifications, mainly because our components were better quality than the issue stuff.

http://www.brugger-thomet.ch/
Alex_B
a belated thank you for the the link. very good website.
cheers
 
#18
@Zulu, you are welcome...........I have a Swiss mate who bought an mp5k from them.......legally. H&K with Swiss precision, marvellous. I have contact for US made rails also, I'll try and find it.

Re. my aforementioned pistol mods. they were justified and allowed because the same parts were already being officially purchased and fitted by the REME to weapons being used by a certain low profile Regiment. The armourer that looked after us had also looked after theirs so the OC was told this and Purchase orders were shown as proof. He did bleat on about Geneva and other cuckoo clock producing towns but in the end he allowed permission as the same components had already been used in a British military unit. Mind, he did become more agreeable once there had been a whip round and his pachmayers were bought for him.
 
#19
Given the choice the ACOG seems a better sight.

Combat Air Controllers from the USAF had them on the ranges in Kuwait when we were out on Telic 2. Top kit, very light weight, red dot instead of a post. An M4 with an ACOG is a very lightweight shooter, even with a 203 underneath...I liked the whole conbination

I believe the same manufacturer now has a sight that can be set in two mods 1x and 4x mag...very flexible

As most countries seem to use the picatinny rail its a shame when the A2 was remanufactured that this feature was not added. SUSAT whilst good is now outdated..
 
#20
Have any of these jobsworths who bleat on about the Geneva Convention ever actually read it ? I doubt it. It prohibits weapons that produce unnecessary pain and suffering (or similar wording). It does not and has never prohibited user modifications. The prohibitions apply equally to factory produced weapons as to user mods.

However, it is a sensible policy to require all mods to UK weapons to be approved by someone qualified. Just don't spout some spurious arrse about cuckoo-clock land when you do, just be honest and state that policy is that you can't.
 
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