• This is a stand-to for an incoming competition, one of our most expensive yet.
    Later this week we're going to be offering the opportunity to Win £270 Rab Neutrino Pro military down jacket
    Visit the thread at that link above and Watch it to be notified as soon as the competition goes live

SA80 A2 familiarisation

#1
just come back from a weekend of conversion training on LSW and SA80 A2

Trained and fired the SA80 quite impressed and consider it a useful training tool for target shooting, the drills is exactly the same as the LSW, although you don't need to forward assist as the spring is just as strong, you have to include it in the training because it is in the Training Manual.

from what I understand the LSW and GP will be withdrawn and replaced by the A2 with the change lever set permanently to "R" for Cadet use only.
the cadets needs to be aware that there is more of a recoil with this one as the gas piston kicks backward unlike the GP.

as far as I am aware the GP has until 2010 before needing urgent replacement due to wear and tear along with limited spares, eventually there will be too few GPs to continue viable training.
The big question is when the changes will be coming in, my guess is as good as yours, it can only be a good thing, once implemented.
 
#3
of course, thats why I said you still have to do it as per the training manual, even though it is not needed in practice.
even the the DS said the army doesn't change, if it has always been done that way , that way it will be done.
 
#5
Seconded, why do children need the A2 , in my day we had to make do with the SLR and the .303...........oh hang on, bad argument !
 
#6
I have to say, I can't see how we can equip cadets with an assault rifle, currently the Eu and UN are making moves against child soldiers and the UK as part of the EU has signed up to a convention that forbids the arming of children under 16. DPM, L85, Beret and webbing= soldier.
 
#7
Seems daft to me, giving out such weapons to children.

Just let 'em use bolt actions. It is only to teach them shooting is it not?
 
#8
chocolate_frog said:
Seems daft to me, giving out such weapons to children.

Just let 'em use bolt actions. It is only to teach them shooting is it not?
Agreed, what happened to the old No8s?
 
#9
No8s are going at the end of the year ,being replaced with off the shelf .22 target rifles,green stock for ACF,dk blue for SCC and lt blue for ATC.Bringing the L98A2 ,as it will be called,in will IMO be safer than the thrown together disaster thats available now as weaker cadets can have problems cocking it and holding it under control to lock the working parts back ,at least with the A2 the strong hand will not leave the pistol grip so the weapon is permantly under control and as an RCO and WI that seems a lot safer to me.
 
#10
L98a2 is "supposed" to be issued to the SCC this year.

Number 8 rifle is going and i havn't heard anything about a replacement .22 wise. Hope what RUCFOREVER is true.
 
#11
Whats the point you dont even get that many rounds anyway.Im shure the money can be put to better use.
 
#12
Won't this be cheaper for the army anyway? L98A2 will have commenality of parts with the L85? Or doesn't it work like that?
 
#13
On an asside i have seen some weapons in an god aweful state.
 
#14
Finding this thread quite interesting I musy say, thought there are a few things that concern me.

1. When I went back to my ACF battalion last summer after leaving to join the Army, we had a number of A2 LSWs to use. No one knew the correct drills for them and were doing things that were either not necessary or completely wrong (I've noticed someone here say that you don't need to forward assist. You DO forward assist, as it is in the drills. The forward assist is incase of any dust or sand stopping the bolt face engaging correctly and has nothing to do with the strength of the spring. That's why many weapons system, like the M16 and C7 all have forward assists as part of the drills).

2. The lack of adherance to regs is also concerning me. The subject of TRFs is an important one, as if this simple part is ignored then who knows what else is. TRFs are not to be worn by the ACF, so Rfn_Warrior if you are sensible and professional, you'll remove it. ACF TRFs are also unnecessary.

3. Last of all, the lack of training (unless things have chnaged in the last six months, please say if they have) for adult instructors, particularly the BHQ, on the A2 is causing people to do stupid things.

4. Cleaning the A2 is not simple and plenty of training should be given to thorough cleaning so that future cadets can enjoy the system

Any thoughts??
 
#15
FFS stop it with that sh*te!

Now back to sensible talk with Nickhere, this has been a major problem throughout the 4 cadet forces. Hopefully with the rolling out of this new weapon and the new standards for WHT's and Wpn Intructors this can start to be averted.

What i have been told that across all the cadet forces you have to actualy be a weapon instructer to be allowed to teach cadets anything to do with weapons. Gaining this Qual includes demonstrating the ability to use the correct regs with the PAMS and the ability to actualy teach cadets it.
 
#16
Nickhere said:
Finding this thread quite interesting I musy say, thought there are a few things that concern me.

1. When I went back to my ACF battalion last summer after leaving to join the Army, we had a number of A2 LSWs to use. No one knew the correct drills for them and were doing things that were either not necessary or completely wrong (I've noticed someone here say that you don't need to forward assist. You DO forward assist, as it is in the drills. The forward assist is incase of any dust or sand stopping the bolt face engaging correctly and has nothing to do with the strength of the spring. That's why many weapons system, like the M16 and C7 all have forward assists as part of the drills).

2. The lack of adherance to regs is also concerning me. The subject of TRFs is an important one, as if this simple part is ignored then who knows what else is. TRFs are not to be worn by the ACF, so Rfn_Warrior if you are sensible and professional, you'll remove it. ACF TRFs are also unnecessary.

3. Last of all, the lack of training (unless things have changed in the last six months, please say if they have) for adult instructors, particularly the BHQ, on the A2 is causing people to do stupid things.

4. Cleaning the A2 is not simple and plenty of training should be given to thorough cleaning so that future cadets can enjoy the system

Any thoughts??
Hello Mate

on point 3. that is why we were having this study weekend, we did all the drill, stoppage drills, and Forward Assist.

Ponit 4. We do Strip and assemble which includes the bolt carrier assembly, recoil Spring and cocking handle AND piston rod, gas cylinder plug and gas cylinder.

the aim is to train the cadets for when (if) they get introduced.

re my comments on Forward assist, I did not say it is not needed in practice the DS guy said that , he has been to Afgahnistan and Iraq with it, used it every day , he said it is now more robust and reliable compared to the A1 along with a new robust Magazine one for live rounds and another with Yellow stripes for blanks with a built in safety catch that springs out if you try to insert a live round in a blank magazine.

He also mentioned he now rarely gets a stoppage on the A2 compared to the A1, which can only be a good thing on ranges with more time devoted to marksmanship.

all in all I would say this is vastly better than the GP system and was mentioned earlier some small cadets have trouble cocking and keeping it steady which is very dangerous requiring more of the ARD staff attention and having to c0ck for them.


Rfn_Warrior, fück off !! you are killing the thread with your immature comments ditto for the adults for encouraging him to carry on and taking this off topic. ignore him. there is more important things to worry about
 
#17
As a matter of interest? Where are all the A2's for the ACF going to come from?

How many are needed to replace the L98's which seem to be worn out long before their L85 cousins who fire more rounds?

Correct me if I am wrong but you use DP's for dry training? Then I hope they have sufficient to produce A2 DP's as well? Or you will wear these out as well.

To my mind I hope they do find enough weapons to replace the L98A1 GP Rifle, But would a L85A2 with modified change lever be a L85A3 rather than a L98A2 as they are vastly different rifles. Prehaps a convertion program could referbish and upgrade the L98's useing some parts from the L86A2 LSW and remaining L85A1's at Donnington (by Heckler Koch in Germany as they are no longer produced in the UK or anywhere else for that matter)

As a matter of interest the 7.62mm SLR of the 1960's to early 90's was designed as a fully automatic weapon and was modified to fire Semi-Auto for service use. It would need more than a welded change lever to make it safe to use.
 
#18
I think its a good idea replacing it.....i remember countless ND's with those fukcin Gp's pieces of shite. A2's are much better and should be used. Also Rfn_warrior i dont think your walting mate but....i know how you feel the rifles are a fine regiment...(having just left) which i regret. Just be a little less squaddie and be a bit more cadet yeah...people wont call you a walt then..and when you are old enough dont listen to you recruiter about joining other fish and chip cnut regiments..join the rifles son.

Donnie
 
#19
Mike_2817 said:
As a matter of interest? Where are all the A2's for the ACF going to come from?

How many are needed to replace the L98's which seem to be worn out long before their L85 cousins who fire more rounds?

Correct me if I am wrong but you use DP's for dry training? Then I hope they have sufficient to produce A2 DP's as well? Or you will wear these out as well.

To my mind I hope they do find enough weapons to replace the L98A1 GP Rifle, But would a L85A2 with modified change lever be a L85A3 rather than a L98A2 as they are vastly different rifles. Prehaps a convertion program could referbish and upgrade the L98's useing some parts from the L86A2 LSW and remaining L85A1's at Donnington (by Heckler Koch in Germany as they are no longer produced in the UK or anywhere else for that matter)

As a matter of interest the 7.62mm SLR of the 1960's to early 90's was designed as a fully automatic weapon and was modified to fire Semi-Auto for service use. It would need more than a welded change lever to make it safe to use.
SHHH don't give MOD that idea! i can see the headlines now (Army to recieve new L85A3 rifle, its A3 so its better! wooo Gordon does love them!)

I don't see how it would be? Its set to semi, cadets can't change it, whats the problem?
 
#20
Well it cannot be just welded to SEMI it must be able to be changed between SAFE and SEMI which would mean a block between SEMI and AUTO which could break off?

The SLR was fitted with a modified sear that removed this possibility! Any REME Armourers care to comment?

And yes it would probably end up being called a L98A2 Cadet GP Rifle at that.
 

Similar threads

Top