S&B .303 really is rather good

#1
Once I'd worked out where to hold and I'd got warmed up, they went where they were pointed at 300m!

1523854066383.png


And this was with a 2-position flip sight, sling-supported. Shot 1 low was my fault (I held too low), and then the rest went into about a foot.

1523854143964.png


2-groove 1943 Long Branch. I'm rather happy with it.

1523854234529.png


And, to be honest, the 2-position flip is more than adequate for a conscript boom stick.
 
#2
Is that the 180 grain soft point?
 
#3
Nope. 180gn FMJ
 
#4
I don't like the cases.. I prefer PPU for reloading..

(well I really prefer Lapua, but beggars etc..!)

btw anyone around your end of the woods playing with Werder 11.5x 35R or Lebel pistol...?
asking for a friend!
 
#5
I don't like the cases.. I prefer PPU for reloading..

(well I really prefer Lapua, but beggars etc..!)

btw anyone around your end of the woods playing with Werder 11.5x 35R or Lebel pistol...?
asking for a friend!
Paging @Croque_Monsieur
 
#7
Ah... good morning Sah! I believe we have been conversing regarding Chassepot obturation on other means..?

I am looking at remaking 8 x 27R and 11x35R.. any hints for cases and moulds..? I think you can make 8 x 27 from .32-20? Is the base of 11x35R the same as 11x50?

Donnelly & Donnelly are notably absent of details regarding these ones...!
 
#8
For 11x35R I believe so, the source case for both is luckily 45-70 which is easy to find. CH4D have die sets available.
If your Français is up to scratch there is an excellent thread here with the trials and tribulations of a few reloaders on the subject.

For 8x27R I'm currently just using some dismantled Fiocchi cases (the loaded ammo was shockingly bad) but 32-20 is indeed the usual source case. I'm using .327 bullets from Balleurope, casting quality is not great but who cares, it's never going to be a target gun. I'm using 0.24g of Vectan A1.
 
#9
Thank you kind sir..!

If I can make 11x35R from 45-70 this is excellent.. I was reading somewhere that it needed a Mauser base and I was getting a bit concerned that I might have to chop up Bertram 11 x 60!

Looks like Dave at CH4 is going to get some more of my sheckels.. I have been conversing with him regarding Privi Lebel cases which are old spec and not as thick as the N cases that most of the dies are set up for.. ! Thanks for the link.. mein Kraut is besser dan mein Frog, so we will see. I did find an German case manufacturer that was listing 11x35R, but I have lost the link.. If I find it again I will come back..

BTW I use the Lee 90374 moulds for my Chassepot.. this is a .45-70 bullet that seems to work very well for the "modern" pattern cartridge. I also have a mould that throws the proper conical bullet, but making up the cartridge is much more fiddly..
 
#10
I think the German maker you are thinking of is Horneber.

For my Chassepot I am currently on a "100% original" vibe. I may regress to the simple tube method as time goes by but I'm getting quite quick at producing them. I also have the H&C conversion kit so I can fire both NF and CF in one outing with the same rifle.
 
#11
For the 8mm/92 pistol cartridge all I'm doing is trimming .32-20's. Det's it.

H&N do a 95gn copper plated .325 that runs OK, but shoots low as you'd imagine cos it's 15gn too light. One of these days I might get me a mould, but I don't shoot my leetle Spanish Smeef y Westón (as it were) enough to justify it really.
 
#12
Once I'd worked out where to hold and I'd got warmed up, they went where they were pointed at 300m!

View attachment 331103
Note for the interested - the dotted circle in the middle (X-ring) is 5cm diameter; the next solid circle around it (the 10-ring) is 10cm diameter; it's a gap of 5cm / two inches between each solid ring.

That's about a nine-inch group for six shots at 300m; not bad, not bad at all...

Now for the digression...

For those curious about competitive standards at international level (with all the shiny gear, supportive made-to-measure clothing, selected ammunition, and brand-new barrels), the 300m ISSF events use an almost identical target. The 2015 CISM championships results for standard rifle 3x20 are here; these are often Olympians, and the Sergeant from the Norwegian Army who won that match scored 583-28x (196 kneeling, 200 prone, 187 standing; 28 of those 60 shots landed within the 5cm dotted circle).
  • when you see 3x20, it means 20 shots each position (prone, standing, kneeling).
  • when you see "standard rifle" it means something closer to a service rifle; iron sights, bolt action, 1.5kg minimum trigger weight, and you're very limited on the adjustability of the stock. "Free rifle" is the anything-goes variety that you'll see at the Olympic and Commonwealth Games
So; standing unsupported, with iron sights and a standard rifle, they hold a 20cm group for 20 shots at 300m...
 
Last edited:
#13
Actually you're right - that's about 22-25cm diameter. I'd over-estimated.
 
#14
And just remember, according to the Intarwebs, it's well-established that Lee-Enfields have systematic accuracy issues because they're rear-locking....... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
#16
Indeed. Your rifle isn't quite good enough to be used as a No.4 Mk.1(T), but is perfectly acceptable as a K.98 sniper rifle...;)
I suspect that off a 6-point rest and with an optic it'd make it though :D

Although being a 2-groove disqualifies it automatically.
 
#17
And just remember, according to the Intarwebs, it's well-established that Lee-Enfields have systematic accuracy issues because they're rear-locking....... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Don't forget that its a weaker action as well. Not as strong as a mauser. even if the Turks refurbished captured LE to 7.92x57.

Its not accurate, its .303 174gn FMJ has less power and its sterling service in WW1, WW2 and Korea only go to show how the Commonwealth got it wrong for 60 odd years...
 
#18
And you can't move on the Intartubes for pictures of blown-up Lee-Enfields, like this one:

1523903724213.png

Or this one
1523903746298.png

Or this one
1523903769063.png

Or this one
1523903791959.png

Or this one
1523903853272.png

Or this one
1523903916243.png


Wait... what do you mean none of those are L-E's`????
 
#19
I read somewhere that the parallel sides of the bullet dropping smartly off to a flat base created a vacuum drag that kept it stable and accurate out to 600 yds or so and that was acceptable. The rear locking lug criticism allowed for the bolt to compress marginally and allow the case to wibble and send the bullet off slightly canted, but given the length of the bullet side wall, I doubt if that would be much of an issue. If there are problems, it is masked by most shooters' introduction of variables. Politely stated, the rifle shoots better than you do.
 
#20
Anyone got any any idea why Uk + Commonwealth stuck with a flat base when the Germans, for instance, used a boat tailed round ? I think we used a BT on the MkVIII but that was for MG use only.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top