Ryanair screwing staff - again

Tool

LE
When the weathers good you cant beat it.
Slight issue with UK holidays...

I will never fly RyanAir if at all possible. I found them to be low-rent, and recently have been proven to be unreliable and late. If they bothe rt pitch up.

Unfortunately, SleazyJet have been proven to be not much much better over the past couple of years.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Slight issue with UK holidays...

I will never fly RyanAir if at all possible. I found them to be low-rent, and recently have been proven to be unreliable and late. If they bothe rt pitch up.

Unfortunately, SleazyJet have been proven to be not much much better over the past couple of years.
Easy jet have always been good with me especially at Inverness however they were c u nts to minime and shut their desk rather than deal with pax whose flight was cancelled.
It's taken 2 years and I've still not got back half of the money we sent our lad to find a hotel.
 
His job is to make money, not look after the staffs welfare. Under his time at Ryanair they have grown massively while dozens of other airlines have gone bust. Most firms who "invest in their employees" do so because they beleive it will save/make them money in the long run. I get a free medical once a year, not because my bosses give a toss about me personally, but because they believe it could cut down on sick days used. Until someone can prove he'll get more money by treating his staff better, he'll continue to be ruthless.

He gives the public what the want, no frills air travel.
If the public were given the choice to pay 50 quid for a flight but the staff get treated poorly or they pay 70 quid a flight but the staff get treated better, then the staff would be fucked.
The only reason O’Leary is able to operate as he does is because it’s the airline industry with the supposedly associated glamour of the industry and also, a lot of people put up with the crap because they are looking either for getting around the world for free as aircrew or as ground staff for cheaper travel perks for themselves and their families.

Ryanair are seen as an entry point to the industry. Many people who start their airline careers with Ryanair as soon as they have a foot in the door and can say they are experienced in what they do, then start constantly looking around for jobs with other airlines that treat their staff better.

O’Leary’s IR methods are the exception rather than the rule. That doesn’t mean that other companies don’t use their staff in ways that seem unfair to outsiders. It means that his methods are more extreme than even those companies who are perceived to be more stringent with their staff in employment terms.

There certainly is more than one way to skin a cat as far as industrial relations are concerned. For example, I’m not a fan of Branson but from what I understand, Virgin Airways use a very different model as their IR strategy and yet they are a successful airline.

O’Leary’s methods are a deliberate policy of running an organisation and keeping it’s staff on their toes by
using fear of losing their jobs as an IR tool. He also employs a similar strategy to maintain profits and keep a leading edge in the business by using the staff to bear the brunt of any cost savings that he wants to make.

They do say, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys working for you and pissed off staff will quickly become monkeys if their employer treats them badly. There are a multitude of stories related to Ryanair that I have heard over the years that bear this out.
 
The only reason O’Leary is able to operate as he does is because it’s the airline industry with the supposedly associated glamour of the industry and also, a lot of people put up with the crap because they are looking either for getting around the world for free as aircrew or as ground staff for cheaper travel perks for themselves and their families.

Ryanair are seen as an entry point to the industry. Many people who start their airline careers with Ryanair as soon as they have a foot in the door and can say they are experienced in what they do, then start constantly looking around for jobs with other airlines that treat their staff better.

O’Leary’s IR methods are the exception rather than the rule. That doesn’t mean that other companies don’t use their staff in ways that seem unfair to outsiders. It means that his methods are more extreme than even those companies who are perceived to be more stringent with their staff in employment terms.

There certainly is more than one way to skin a cat as far as industrial relations are concerned. For example, I’m not a fan of Branson but from what I understand, Virgin Airways use a very different model as their IR strategy and yet they are a successful airline.

O’Leary’s methods are a deliberate policy of running an organisation and keeping it’s staff on their toes by
using fear of losing their jobs as an IR tool. He also employs a similar strategy to maintain profits and keep a leading edge in the business by using the staff to bear the brunt of any cost savings that he wants to make.

They do say, if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys working for you and pissed off staff will quickly become monkeys if their employer treats them badly. There are a multitude of stories related to Ryanair that I have heard over the years that bear this out.
Branson does well because he does things like price fix and then gets immunity by grassing. You'll also find his prices are far higher than Ryanair.
 

ExREME..TECH

On ROPS
On ROPs

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
Ryanair Pilots criticised for poor skills
Pilot wakes up when terrain alarm sounds and yanks on the power, avoiding hitting the hard stuff by 40 seconds
....and it's only just come to light?
 
I think the final report has only recently been submitted, it takes a long time to investigate thoroughly and process it
the AAIB have not featured it in their latest release

I fully understand that some investigations can take a long time, but in this case the pilots and the aircraft (plus its data recorders) survived; it's not as if the investigating authorities had to get down on their hands and knees to dig around in a field to find clues. Wonder what @Toastie makes of it?
 
I fully understand that some investigations can take a long time, but in this case the pilots and the aircraft (plus its data recorders) survived; it's not as if the investigating authorities had to get down on their hands and knees to dig around in a field to find clues. Wonder what @Toastie makes of it?
At a guess a lot more people than O’Leary would be happy to see this buried in a bureaucratic vortex. EASA for one and the Irish Aviation Authority for another. The former ignored scientific evidence (and in so doing their own rules on law making) on fatigue and upped the number of hours pilots can work in various given periods a few years ago. The latter have become to aviation what Panama is in the shipping world, the country of choice for “flagging out” for operators not too fussed about their obligations to expensive safety regulation.

Both have turned a blind eye to regulatory creep in operations such as O’Leary’s and IMHO the only surprise about this alleged incident is that it hasn’t happened sooner.

Fatigue in crews is IMHO the top safety issue that nobody in officialdom wants to address. Unless they do, it is only a matter of time before we have another example of Tombstone Legislation in aviation. Allegedly O’Leary once stated that the public would tolerate 2 or 3 complete hull losses with all souls before they started to question safety over access to cheap flights. As for staff working conditions, the Travelling Chav is going to give precisely zero fecks as long as they can get their week in Benidorm with the spouse / heifer and their feral kids or the long weekend with the lads from the tyre fitting place on cheap piss and diseased slags in Riga.
 
When you hear stories from present and ex employees of Ryanair, it would make your hair curl, such as the alleged "negotiations" about pay and conditions. Occasionally, the staff get their own back, such as the time when an entire early shift of engineers, having been told that their next pay negotiation would consist of a serious pay cut if they wanted to keep their jobs, upped sticks and crossed the ramp to the competition, where they wrere warmly welcomed. The first thing Ryanair knew about it was when the shit hit the fan when the first flight was due to leave and the aircraft were found not to be signed off. When frantic phone calls were made, to the absent engineers, it turned out that the guy dealing with their contracts had threatened all of them with non-renewal of contracts unless they took the hit on their pay. Their new "contracts" went unsigned and the lads became unemployed at midnight so the aircraft went uninspected / signed off for the next day's work and they were in new jobs. Ryanair were furious, but there was nothing they could do. The same also happened to a group of pilots, so clearly learning from previous mistakes was not a Ryanair habit.
Is this an urban legend, or have you got a reference?
 
Ryanair Pilots criticised for poor skills
Pilot wakes up when terrain alarm sounds and yanks on the power, avoiding hitting the hard stuff by 40 seconds
Think that's Generous - Unless im misreading it They got the "Pull UP" Warning - which I was always taught would equate to about 20 seconds.
But more importantly he got the Pull up warning - he should have had those doncs to the firewall and the nose so far up the stall warning would be kicking in**.

Id blame poor crew training and familiarity as much or more than individual capabilities.

....and it's only just come to light?
No - There would have been an MOR at the time, followed by an unofficial report - (It probably wound up in CHIRRPs as well ) , but it would have been a low priority for this final report


** For non aviation types - Stall warning inhibits the "Pull Up" Shout - using the impeccable logic that if you've got the bird into a position that's risking a stall then you've already seen the unplanned Air ground interface and so theres no use telling him -.
 
At a guess a lot more people than O’Leary would be happy to see this buried in a bureaucratic vortex. EASA for one and the Irish Aviation Authority for another. The former ignored scientific evidence (and in so doing their own rules on law making) on fatigue and upped the number of hours pilots can work in various given periods a few years ago. The latter have become to aviation what Panama is in the shipping world, the country of choice for “flagging out” for operators not too fussed about their obligations to expensive safety regulation.

Both have turned a blind eye to regulatory creep in operations such as O’Leary’s and IMHO the only surprise about this alleged incident is that it hasn’t happened sooner.

Fatigue in crews is IMHO the top safety issue that nobody in officialdom wants to address. Unless they do, it is only a matter of time before we have another example of Tombstone Legislation in aviation. Allegedly O’Leary once stated that the public would tolerate 2 or 3 complete hull losses with all souls before they started to question safety over access to cheap flights. As for staff working conditions, the Travelling Chav is going to give precisely zero fecks as long as they can get their week in Benidorm with the spouse / heifer and their feral kids or the long weekend with the lads from the tyre fitting place on cheap piss and diseased slags in Riga.
The golden days of working in the airline industry are long gone and only the tech is hiding the fact that all staff are now seriously overworked .......

Not sure if Toastie has been involved with the cockpit fumes issue on engines but several Pilots I know were experiencing it regularly but would never report it despite it being a supposed policy for pilots to do so....reason was pressure from airline and being seen as "not on side" so therefore become higher up the list for redundancy .

Mrs G and many friends worked in the industry when long layovers in exotic locations and concessions or even free flights were common .......and to a large degree staff were (she was B Cal ) appreciated and looked after ... the opposite is now in place it seems .
 
Think that's Generous - Unless im misreading it They got the "Pull UP" Warning - which I was always taught would equate to about 20 seconds.
But more importantly he got the Pull up warning - he should have had those doncs to the firewall and the nose so far up the stall warning would be kicking in**.

Id blame poor crew training and familiarity as much or more than individual capabilities.



No - There would have been an MOR at the time, followed by an unofficial report - (It probably wound up in CHIRRPs as well ) , but it would have been a low priority for this final report


** For non aviation types - Stall warning inhibits the "Pull Up" Shout - using the impeccable logic that if you've got the bird into a position that's risking a stall then you've already seen the unplanned Air ground interface and so theres no use telling him -.
Automation complacency. You have a generation of button pushing tech reliant kiddies infesting the skies, few of whom have ever had to hang their arses out over the abyss and think for themselves in crappy circumstances.

It's not going to get any better, because airlines don't really want the operators of ugly workhorses who have had to make life or death calls out in the sticks where no support is available.
 
The golden days of working in the airline industry are long gone and only the tech is hiding the fact that all staff are now seriously overworked .......

Not sure if Toastie has been involved with the cockpit fumes issue on engines but several Pilots I know were experiencing it regularly but would never report it despite it being a supposed policy for pilots to do so....reason was pressure from airline and being seen as "not on side" so therefore become higher up the list for redundancy .

Mrs G and many friends worked in the industry when long layovers in exotic locations and concessions or even free flights were common .......and to a large degree staff were (she was B Cal ) appreciated and looked after ... the opposite is now in place it seems .
Got a friend who’s wife works for TAP the Portuguese airline, new fleet , all Airbus, behind the scenes the new fleet is falling apart, pilots and crew paid peanuts. Just a matter of time until one falls out the sky.
 

RBMK

Old-Salt
Got a friend who’s wife works for TAP the Portuguese airline, new fleet , all Airbus, behind the scenes the new fleet is falling apart, pilots and crew paid peanuts. Just a matter of time until one falls out the sky.
Ditto for a certain other company that operates a fleet of Boeings, mainly 737s and 777s. No names but rumours about aircraft having bits swapped because of a shortage of spares and a lack of qualified engineering staff.
 

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