Russian Troop Movements Reported Near Ukraine

I care enough about your relatives not to want to see them dying in some quarrel over what colour flag flys down at the local police barracks.
That’s very simplistic and assumes that it doesn’t matter who rules and how they rule. In that case, let’s just comfortably stand back and watch totalitarian oppressors like Moscow tread all over neighbouring countries (as well as the people they rule already).
Russia/Putin doesn't have enough money to invade Western Europe nor the ability to hold it nor would that action offer Russia any benefit.
Moscow feels ideologically threatened by Western Europe. And just because it understands it cannot wage open war against it doesn’t mean it isn’t continuously in conflict with it by other means. A current primary aim of the Kremlin is the destruction of the NATO alliance and the EU.

A Europe without NATO or the EU would mean that Moscow could far more easily salami-slice its way westwards. For Moscow the benefit is obvious, it shows the peoples under its rule that there is no alternative to the “Muscovite Mindset” and that resistance to the overlordship of the Kremlin is futile.
 
War is a continuation of politics and we tell small lie to ourselves, that our side has no political goals or advantages in that playground.
Pronouns, pronouns!

Please confirm what you mean by “our side”, as everything you write indicates that you represent Moscow.
 
And yet what Germany wants in Europe, Germany gets.
Did Germany want the U.K. out of the EU?

Did Germany want to have the financial reform recently undertaken which sets a precedent to enable the EU as a whole to underwrite EU member states deficits/borrowing?

Germany is a major player in the EU, but the EU is greater than Germany. It enables Germany to play a constructive part in Europe without alarming or threatening its neighbours.
 

JCC

LE
That’s very simplistic and assumes that it doesn’t matter who rules and how they rule.
Most people's lives are, thank the Lord, fairly simplistic. Will I have a good harvest, will Granny get her hip operation, will the kids do well at school. What the scum in Westminster, or Washington, or Kiev, or the Kremlin are up to doesn't really impact me that much unless the lunatics talk themselves into another fighting match and want me or my kids to do their dying for them.
In that case, let’s just comfortably stand back and watch totalitarian oppressors like Moscow tread all over neighbouring countries (as well as the people they rule already).
Even had Moscow the ability to tread over Western Europe it wouldn't bring much advantage. The West has sold it's soul long ago in exchange for shiny consumer goods.
Moscow feels ideologically threatened by Western Europe.
Both Russia and the West subscribe to the same creed of Crony Capitalism; there is no ideological divide.
And just because it understands it cannot wage open war against it doesn’t mean it isn’t continuously in conflict with it by other means. A current primary aim of the Kremlin is the destruction of the NATO alliance and the EU.
Nord Stream and the Silk Road is already dividing NATO and the EU. Once Europe, or more accurately Germany, is fully connected to, and dependent on, China via Russia then Europe's interests will diverge further from the US and signal the end of NATO. Russia won't have to lift a finger greed will do that. The EU will be the German project for the twenty first century.
A Europe without NATO or the EU would mean that Moscow could far more easily salami-slice its way westwards.
It's not Russia that'll do that it'll be China soft power, and our Lords and Masters will be the ones inviting them in.
For Moscow the benefit is obvious, it shows the peoples under its rule that there is no alternative to the “Muscovite Mindset” and that resistance to the overlordship of the Kremlin is futile.
This “Muscovite Mindset” - is it equivalent to the "Westminster Mindset" or the "Washington Mindset" or the "Brussels Mindset" or the "Bonn Mindset" or the "Paris Mindset" or the "Wolverhampton Mindset"?

They all want power and no matter which one you challenge a sticky end awaits if you cross your rulers or cast doubt on the rightness of our (their) cause.
 
Deflection and whataboutery.
Constitutional democracy is not a forte of Moscow.

What’s it got to do with Moscow?

It’s the Ukrainian constitution we’re discussing here, and I’ve laid out very clearly the charge that the replacement of the lawfully elected president did not follow the process that was clearly set out in the constitution that was in force at the time of his replacement.

So far you’ve entirely failed to disprove this point.
 
A logical solution? For Moscow, maybe mass extermination of whole strata of ethnic and social “undesirables” and forced and brutal population transfer of multitudes may be seen as logical.

Why is it that millions of people under the rule of Moscow (including ethnic Russians), rejected that rule as soon as they could?
During the WW2 a half million of Americans of Japanese descent were deported and imprisoned in special camps. So Stalin with his policy of deportation of ethnical minorities that were active in collaboration with the Nazis was not alone.
 
Double standards? You apply this reasoning? Moscow accusing the West of double standards! Now that is pure effrontery!
I ask namely you not to use double standards for Ukraine and for the West.
I hope you agree that Maidan style removal of Head of state from power is absolutely unacceptable in the West. So if you don't use double standards then it is unacceptable in Ukraine as well.
Closure of 3 TV-channels without court decision is unlawful and even unthinkable in the West. So closure of 3 popular TV-channels in Ukraine you (in theory) should describe as unlawful as well.
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I used the term 'double standards' towards you personally. As for the West and Russia then double standards sadly are being used frequently.
 
Most people's lives are, thank the Lord, fairly simplistic. Will I have a good harvest, will Granny get her hip operation, will the kids do well at school. What the scum in Westminster, or Washington, or Kiev, or the Kremlin are up to doesn't really impact me that much unless the lunatics talk themselves into another fighting match and want me or my kids to do their dying for them.

Even had Moscow the ability to tread over Western Europe it wouldn't bring much advantage. The West has sold it's soul long ago in exchange for shiny consumer goods.

Both Russia and the West subscribe to the same creed of Crony Capitalism; there is no ideological divide.

Nord Stream and the Silk Road is already dividing NATO and the EU. Once Europe, or more accurately Germany, is fully connected to, and dependent on, China via Russia then Europe's interests will diverge further from the US and signal the end of NATO. Russia won't have to lift a finger greed will do that. The EU will be the German project for the twenty first century.

It's not Russia that'll do that it'll be China soft power, and our Lords and Masters will be the ones inviting them in.

This “Muscovite Mindset” - is it equivalent to the "Westminster Mindset" or the "Washington Mindset" or the "Brussels Mindset" or the "Bonn Mindset" or the "Paris Mindset" or the "Wolverhampton Mindset"?

They all want power and no matter which one you challenge a sticky end awaits if you cross your rulers or cast doubt on the rightness of our (their) cause.
So in your view, let’s just roll over and let Moscow or Beijing tickle our tummies then.

I’ve explained the “Muscovite Mindset” many a time, including upthread here; so no, your argument does not hold water.

Your arguments read like attempts to justify totalitarianism and a having a fatalistic attitude, totally in line with the “Muscovite Mindset” and coincident with Beijing’s geopolitical concepts.
 
What’s it got to do with Moscow?

It’s the Ukrainian constitution we’re discussing here, and I’ve laid out very clearly the charge that the replacement of the lawfully elected president did not follow the process that was clearly set out in the constitution that was in force at the time of his replacement.

So far you’ve entirely failed to disprove this point.
No, it’s Muscovite aggression against Ukraine which is the point of this thread. All you are doing is vainly attempting to justify it.
 

JCC

LE
So in your view, let’s just roll over and let Moscow or Beijing tickle our tummies then.

I’ve explained the “Muscovite Mindset” many a time, including upthread here; so no, your argument does not hold water.

Your arguments read like attempts to justify totalitarianism and a having a fatalistic attitude, totally in line with the “Muscovite Mindset” and coincident with Beijing’s geopolitical concepts.
" Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to notice the beam in your own eye?" - Matthew 7:3
 
During the WW2 a half million of Americans of Japanese descent were deported and imprisoned in special camps. So Stalin with his policy of deportation of ethnical minorities that were active in collaboration with the Nazis was not alone.
And that had been admitted as a grave undemocratic mistake. It does not justify Moscow’s actions, it rather emphasises the wrongfulness of the concept.
 
I ask namely you not to use double standards for Ukraine and for the West.
I hope you agree that Maidan style removal of Head of state from power is absolutely unacceptable in the West. So if you don't use double standards then it is unacceptable in Ukraine as well.
Closure of 3 TV-channels without court decision is unlawful and even unthinkable in the West. So closure of 3 popular TV-channels in Ukraine you (in theory) should describe as unlawful as well.
----
I used the term 'double standards' towards you personally. As for the West and Russia then double standards sadly are being used frequently.
Ukraine is fighting for its very survival. I do not see double standards here (unless they are from Moscow). I see concerted attempts at legitimising Muscovite interference in a neighbouring country.
 
No, it’s Muscovite aggression against Ukraine which is the point of this thread. All you are doing is vainly attempting to justify it.

I think they’re entirely justified to act to secure their own interests when dealing with a rogue nation - in the midst of an ongoing military coup and on the verge of civil war - that fails to follow its own constitution & threatens the safety of Russian citizens.

Again, see Panama and Grenada for examples of the US acting in exactly the same way to secure the safety of its own geopolitical and national interests and the safety of its citizens.
 

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