Russian Troop Movements Reported Near Ukraine

Or are you just a self-opinionated idiot who thinks he already knows everything?

Pot and Kettle come to mind.

You are spreading disinformation on this site. Unlike some who are unsure or genuinely believe the stuff they spout, you are frankly malicious.

Your words in the Wu flu thread says anything anyone needs to know about you, Comrade. You have been handed your arrse there and have decided to come here. How strange.

How strange that the apologists all flock to this thread as the moment of decision approaches.

We are faced with a possibly existential dilemma for the Ukrainian people. Whataboutism and reference to events of the past are irrelevant to the current situation. Artillery strikes that may happen in the Ukraine will not be coming from the Wehrmacht, I think.
 
What a stupid response. How can you designate me a Russian troll if you didn't look at the vid I sent?
Are you appointed by HMG to police any common-sense posts and disavow them?
Or are you just a self-opinionated idiot who thinks he already knows everything?
You're pure comedy gold SteveLancs:
"I was born in Yorkshire but the name was taken, so I picked the next best thing. So far as I can make out you all hide your identities so why worry about me?"
 
The Kremlin's account of the Biden/Putin meeting:


I sense from this that Putin got exactly what he wanted all along, which is continued, direct access to ongoing talks with the US, which in effect cuts out what he considers "noise" from other interested parties. Effectively, a reset back to the superpower dialogue of the Soviet era...
 
I sense from this that Putin got exactly what he wanted all along, which is continued, direct access to ongoing talks with the US, which in effect cuts out what he considers "noise" from other interested parties. Effectively, a reset back to the superpower dialogue of the Soviet era...
That's true, but Putin has to up the ante each time, in order to secure those meetings. The Tass and Kremlin reports suggest that Russia is looking for something concrete re Ukraine, in addition to the PR benefits of being seen to be at the top table.
 
That's true, but Putin has to up the ante each time, in order to secure those meetings. The Tass and Kremlin reports suggest that Russia is looking for something concrete re Ukraine, in addition to the PR benefits of being seen to be at the top table.

Perhaps above everything, this is what irks him - Putin feels that as the leader of a top-table nuclear power, he shouldn't have to keep upping the ante in this way. He knows that the only really big dog in the room is the US and wants to resolve issues directly with it, rather than through proxies. This is apparent in his repeated referral to "Shere Khan and the Tabaquis". Now he believes Biden has given him the opportunity to do so.
 
No doubt they can't be called unbiased. but they are giving an indicator on what triggers are there and those that are missing eg an increase in C2 elements, but nothing (open source) ref mobilisation of VDV (airborne forces). Also noting some of the disinformation and of course the expected frequency of such, echoed on here and elsewhere: https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/ISW Ukraine Indicators Update 2021.12.7.pdf

Updated on a regular basis. Yesterday's notes:
TASS published an article on December 7 claiming that Zelensky may strip Donbas residents of their Ukrainian citizenship.27 The article speculated that a potential Ukrainian policy change on dual citizenship regulations that Zelensky discussed on December 1 could enable Zelensky to deprive Donbas residents of opportunities to obtain Ukrainian citizenship.

Russian media falsely claimed the OSCE observed Ukraine deploying tanks and howitzers to Donbas on December 7.28 The OSCE Special Monitoring Mission to Ukraine observed 30 Ukrainian tanks and 17 Ukrainian howitzers at two railway stations in Ukrainian governmentcontrolled areas of Donetsk and Luhansk on December 6.29 The OSCE stated this hardware was in compliance with withdrawal lines.
 
Why is Putin picking on Greece ?!
I don't think he is (well, that wasn't my reading). It looks as if, during Russo-Greek talks, he was asked about, or offered a view on Greece. Perhaps he hopes that cultural and religious links between Greece and Russia may make Greek a passive observer/half-hearted participant if Russia and Ukraine fight?

Edit-it is politics so there is pressure there but not threats as far as I can see.
 
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This conceivable scenario has been getting huge circulation in the US, no doubt already at advanced stages of planning at the Pentagon.

 
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Unfortunate turn of phrase from the POTUS at the end of this tweet:

1638991289423.png
 
Watching the Ukraine foreign minister on SKY , I know ☹️.

He brought many valid points , Will NATO rush to help if there is an invasion . I personally think , no .
NATO member states have had a few years to help them . Weapons and tech. Yes there are “Training teams” out there but how much training do they need , they have been fighting the bear for years now.

The have bought Turkish UAVs , that showed the world in the Azerbaijan conflict just how good UAVs are . Officially only 6 .
The Russians know and are using WW2 tech to stop them .

1638997002776.jpeg


Today …

1638997247987.jpeg

Hope they , the Ukrainians have a lot of spare munitions.
 
The Russians
The Russians have been dealing with drones, including Turkish ones, for some time in Syria. I'd imagine they've been getting a lot of data from Armenia, too.

The improvised armour might be as much a morale booster as anything else.
 
Condottiere,
When Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union, was there much internal resistance to Moscow? Was it a stable, peaceful, and "obedient" region?

If there was to be a full scale invasion and occupancy, could it ever be returned to the above status? What sort of timescale, and how much problem would it be for it to be administered as a satellite of Moscow? Would it breed terrorism as did Chechnya?
To begin with, as I am the first to admit that my background is Polish and to try to pre-empt and defuse any attempts by Moscow's trolls to try and stir up historic Polish-Ukrainian grievances, I would like to state that they are not the subject of discussion here and I shall not be drawn into that topic. While Poles and Ukrainians have had their often very painful differences, currently the Polish and Ukrainian nations are standing steadfastly together in the face of a resurgence of aggressive and expansionist behaviour from Moscow despite continuous attempts by the Kremlin to stir-up hard-line nationalist animosities on both sides.

At the the end of WW1, Ukraine was still under nominal German control, pending the withdrawal of German troops. A chaotic flux ensued as Ukrainians, Poles and Russians (of both Red and White persuasions) vied to establish their visions of what they wanted Ukraine to become. Unfortunately the Ukrainians were split between various factions and came off the worst. After the defeat of the Red Army by Poland in 1920, the Treaty of Riga established the western border of the Soviet Union and incorporated most of present day Ukraine apart from a small portion to the west. which was included in Poland. The Ukrainian SSR was formed from the land under Mscow's control

To begin with (coinciding with the economic liberalisation of Lenin's NEP) and in order to consolidate it's hold on power, Moscow instituted a policy of Ukrainian cultural autonomy with promotion of the Ukrainian language and national characteristics. This was quickly counter-manded and came to an end with Stalin's consolidation of power. An intense period of cultural Russification and economic collectivisation ensued. The Ukrainian intelligentsia was crushed and the Ukrainian middle class was wiped out. Due to the resistance shown agaisnt Moscow's policies, Stalin deliberately targeted Ukraine with famine. The "Holodomor" (mass-murder by starvation) resulted in an estimated three to ten million deaths (researched figures vary widely).

Hence the (ultimately gravely mistaken) hugely enthusiastic welcome in 1941 of the German Armed Forces as liberators. We all know how WW2 concluded. Many anti-Soviet Ukrainians either perished or went into exile. The NKVD then ruthlessly executed any remaining "enemies of the people" (unless they were willling to change their allegiance and work with Moscow against their fellow countrymen).

Post WW2, Moscow's rule over Ukraine involved a combination of carrot and stick. A firm grip was held on the levers of power by the Kremlin. The official history downplayed the notions of anything but a strictly nominal separate Ukrainian national identity. There were periods of a loosening of cultural restrictions followed by futher tightening. Ukrainian nationalists were always equated with fascism and support of the Nazis in WW2. Free discussion was not tolerated. The official party line set by Moscow had to be followed by all official institutions (there were no unofficial ones). This included the teaching of history, though the truth was quietly shared by word of mouth. Ukraine was bound even more tightly to Moscow by central planning, boundary changes, industrial development, mass immigration of ethnic Russians. There was no leeway for Ukrainian dissent. It became, as was stated in the question, "a stable, peaceful, and obedient region" as no alternative was possible without a massive retaliatory reponse by Moscow.

Just as across the rest of the Soviet Union and the Soviet Block countriest, to get by, people had to acquiesce to the pernicious system. However there was always a possibility of high advancement for Ukrainians if they sold their souls to the devil and fully subscribed to being "stable, peaceful, and obedient" servants of Moscow.

But it was all just an authoritarian house of cards and Ukrainians asserted their independence at the first possible opportunity. There has been a taste of freedom and I cannot see any peaceful return to the "status quo ante". There would be mass resistance against Moscow if that were to happen.

I'm happy to be corrected in my assessment by genuine Ukrainians though, especially those with personal or family experience.
 
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Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
Watching the Ukraine foreign minister on SKY , I know ☹️.

He brought many valid points , Will NATO rush to help if there is an invasion . I personally think , no .
NATO member states have had a few years to help them . Weapons and tech. Yes there are “Training teams” out there but how much training do they need , they have been fighting the bear for years now.

The have bought Turkish UAVs , that showed the world in the Azerbaijan conflict just how good UAVs are . Officially only 6 .
The Russians know and are using WW2 tech to stop them .

View attachment 621261

Today …

View attachment 621264
Hope they , the Ukrainians have a lot of spare munitions.
There’s no way a Berlin Bedstead will make any difference to a munition, explosive or otherwise, hitting those tanks from a couple of thousand feet.
 
Why is Putin picking on Greece ?!
I don't think he is (well, that wasn't my reading). It looks as if, during Russo-Greek talks, he was asked about, or offered a view on Greece. Perhaps he hopes that cultural and religious links between Greece and Russia may make Greek a passive observer/half-hearted participant if Russia and Ukraine fight?

Edit-it is politics so there is pressure there but not threats as far as I can see.
Moscow has long had ambitions on Greece. The Tsars dreamed of taking Constantinople from the Ottomans, securing the Bosporus and the Dardanelles for themselves and liberating their Orthodox co-religionists from the control of the Sublime Porte.

This aim remained after the Bolsheviks took over and was one of Stalin's ambitions in WW2. However in this aim Churchill (with Rooseveldt's acquiescence) got the upper hand in negotiations in the Fourth Moscow Conference in 1944 and managed to get Stalin to concede that Greece would remain in the western sphere of interest/influence. A crumb of comfort when unfortunately much of central Europe was sold out at the same time. Percentages agreement - Wikipedia

This is the reason why Moscow never intervened (despite the urging of Tito) in force in Greece during the civil war (1946-9) which pitted Greek Communist partisans and militias against the Greek Government Army in support of which British also committed troops. Greek Civil War - Wikipedia

Moscow still has its eye on the area (including Cyprus) and would dearly love to split both Turkey and Greece from NATO and foment trouble there, increasing its own influence and presence.
 
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