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Russian take on The Falklands Conflict. (Did it help deter them?)

Le_addeur_noir

On ROPS
On ROPs
Without wishing to sound omniscient, I (like others) said at the time that the success of CORPORATE would send an important message to the Warsaw Pact about British - and, to a degree, NATO - resolve. The seemingly ruthless sinking of the Belgrano, while a tragedy in human terms, would also have impressed the hard men of the Kremlin, in particular. Later that year I spent a few weeks with a (very hospitable) Bundeswehr armoured unit. Many of the officers and SNCOs were warm - indeed, almost effusive - in their praise of the operation, not least citing the enormous distances involved, the concomitant logistics, the Argentine numerical air superiority and, of course, the fighting qualities and tenacity displayed after the early naval and ground-force losses. Those views were, obviously, retrospective; I believe a US Navy assessment at the time of the deployment of the task force considered the retaking of the islands to be virtually impossible. It was certainly an important turning point in our post-Suez/Cold War history, and it is fascinating to speculate on what might have happened had Jim Callaghan (a wartime RN officer himself, of course) won the 1979 election and still been in No 10.

I seem to recall the Argentinians did try some sort build-up/stand-off when Callahan was in power, and naval forces were quietly dispatched, and the Argentinians backed off. Going back a long way, but I seem to recall there was some coverage in the Telegraph. I appear to be one of the few people who did know where the Falkland Islands were prior to 1982. Others may like to confirm this event under Labour in the late 1970s, and add to it?.

Despite critics, it must be remembered Callahan's Labour government gave us the Sea Harrier, the Chinook and the VC-10 tankers. The former two were instrumental in the Falklands conflict.
 

HCL

LE
Without wishing to sound omniscient, I (like others) said at the time that the success of CORPORATE would send an important message to the Warsaw Pact about British - and, to a degree, NATO - resolve. The seemingly ruthless sinking of the Belgrano, while a tragedy in human terms, would also have impressed the hard men of the Kremlin, in particular. Later that year I spent a few weeks with a (very hospitable) Bundeswehr armoured unit. Many of the officers and SNCOs were warm - indeed, almost effusive - in their praise of the operation, not least citing the enormous distances involved, the concomitant logistics, the Argentine numerical air superiority and, of course, the fighting qualities and tenacity displayed after the early naval and ground-force losses. Those views were, obviously, retrospective; I believe a US Navy assessment at the time of the deployment of the task force considered the retaking of the islands to be virtually impossible. It was certainly an important turning point in our post-Suez/Cold War history, and it is fascinating to speculate on what might have happened had Jim Callaghan (a wartime RN officer himself, of course) won the 1979 election and still been in No 10.

Callaghan would have fought. He sent a couple of frigates and destroyers down there in 1976/77 when the Argentines were kicking off.

Edit beaten by @Le_addeur_noir
 
Others may like to confirm this event under Labour in the late 1970s, and add to it?.

Operation Journeyman. HMS Dreadnought and two frigates, plus supporting RFA. They had fairly tight ROE, but were sent to demonstrate to the Argentines that there would be a response if they attempted to invade the Falklands. The scientists who landed on Southern Thule (and who were allowed to remain there) were thought to be a possible advance party, as it were, to test UK resolve. There is a school of thought which says that the Argentines only learned of the Op after it had ended such was the secrecy of the deployment, but this seems unlikely (in the same way that the claim that the RAF deployment to Singapore to deter the Indonesians in the mid-60s was completely missed by the Indonesians - despite the fact that the front page of the Straits Times was dominated by a BFO photograph of a Victor and banner headlines about the RAF deploying bombers...)
 
Not sure that it would have needed a particularly left wing government, don't forget that the Conservative government under MT held negations over Falklands sovereignty with Argentina in 1980.

IMHO it's the duty of HMG of any hue to negotiate with foreign powers.

Sovereignty of FI was certainly negotiable, and possibly advantageous to the Islanders if that was how they self determined.

Naked aggression, invasion and occupation is a different kettle of fish, and if it goes unchecked leaves international law worthless.
 
Despite critics, it must be remembered Callahan's Labour government gave us the Sea Harrier, the Chinook and the VC-10 tankers. The former two were instrumental in the Falklands conflict.
All three - There would have been no Black Buck without Victor tankers.
 

Niamac

GCM
Again, a read of Razor's Edge by Hugh Bicheno is recommended.
Yes, and I have just been reading an account from the Elint point of view. "Beyond the Enigma" the history of GCHQ which re-inforces the opinion that it was a very close run thing with the ferocity and professionalism of the individual soldier being the deciding factor.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Yes, and I have just been reading an account from the Elint point of view. "Beyond the Enigma" the history of GCHQ which re-inforces the opinion that it was a very close run thing with the ferocity and professionalism of the individual soldier being the deciding factor.
Having been taken through Basic by a Tumbledown veteran and having a few people from 2 Para kicking around at the same time, I've no doubt.

Bloody hard men and good soldiers. Very good mentors.
 

Niamac

GCM
Having been taken through Basic by a Tumbledown veteran
Not to try and "top" that or anything, but one of our instructors was an Arnhem veteran. It's just that I'm getting older.
 

Yokel

LE
Yes that is interesting. It makes one think about the vulnerability of QE and PoW against sustained attack by hypersonic missiles.

Alternatively - carrier based air defence is vital for depth in depth of naval task groups, including amphibious ones and crisis response shipping. The Soviet long ranged aircraft and submarines trying to stop reinforcements coming across the Atlantic would be countered by a lot of carrier based aircraft.

See this thread also - about the need for carriers to defend NATO convoys in the Atlantic.
 
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Apologies off top of my head he had MiD and MBE (Mil).

Heath participated as an adjutant in the Normandy landings, where he met Maurice Schumann, French Foreign Minister under Pompidou.[19] As a temporary major commanding a battery of his own, he provided artillery support during the Allied campaigns in France and Germany in 1944–45, for which he received a mention in despatches on 8 November 1945.[18]

Even wiki can be wrong. I think he was CO of 2 Regt HAC (gooners), as there was only one Inf Bn.

Still a traitorous cnut - stood the Sjts & WOs Mess dinner up to talk with Saddam Hussein. At other dinners his portrait was regularly abused.

Spent the early part of the war in a debating tour of the US ?. I (genuinely) wonder what the debates were about and what standpoint(s) he took. Probably somewhere in his personal museum.
 

QRK2

LE
Even wiki can be wrong. I think he was CO of 2 Regt HAC (gooners), as there was only one Inf Bn.

Still a traitorous cnut - stood the Sjts & WOs Mess dinner up to talk with Saddam Hussein. At other dinners his portrait was regularly abused.

Spent the early part of the war in a debating tour of the US ?. I (genuinely) wonder what the debates were about and what standpoint(s) he took. Probably somewhere in his personal museum.

Wartime he was posted from RA to 86 (HAC) HAA Regt, as Regt 2ic, IIRC he acted as CO but was never substantively appointed as such. Post war CO 2nd HAC (HAA).
 
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Zhopa

War Hero
You may be interested into this American paper into the lessons the Soviet Navy took from the Falklands War.
Ah Jake Kipp. (As also posted by @W21A.) Forgotten more about Russia and its navies than most other people ever knew, and still alive and (sort of) well today.

 
How about a bit of mad Goose Green maths.... 400 paras took on 1500 defenders and won, so, using the minimum of 10 to 1 Soviet local assault rules... 400 in assault did the job of 15000....if in defence that means you will have to attack the same 400 with 150,000 Troops...... that would be a deterrent.
 
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