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Russian take on The Falklands Conflict. (Did it help deter them?)

Dwarf

LE
I came across this article today and found it interesting, both from the initial assessments to the conclusions.
The fact that it may have helped deter Ivan from a bit of aggressive tourism hadn't occurred to me before now and made me pause for a moment. Being part of the Army during the conflict and hving read a fair bit since I enjoyed the non-British POV and found it a nice short article just right for a mug of tea. Any other old and bold may enjoy it too so I'm sharing.


 
“Yes we can recover the islands...and we must!" Because if we do not, or if we pussyfoot in our actions and do not achieve complete success, in another few months we shall be living in a different country whose word counts for little."

Admiral Sir Henry Leach
 
Without wishing to sound omniscient, I (like others) said at the time that the success of CORPORATE would send an important message to the Warsaw Pact about British - and, to a degree, NATO - resolve. The seemingly ruthless sinking of the Belgrano, while a tragedy in human terms, would also have impressed the hard men of the Kremlin, in particular. Later that year I spent a few weeks with a (very hospitable) Bundeswehr armoured unit. Many of the officers and SNCOs were warm - indeed, almost effusive - in their praise of the operation, not least citing the enormous distances involved, the concomitant logistics, the Argentine numerical air superiority and, of course, the fighting qualities and tenacity displayed after the early naval and ground-force losses. Those views were, obviously, retrospective; I believe a US Navy assessment at the time of the deployment of the task force considered the retaking of the islands to be virtually impossible. It was certainly an important turning point in our post-Suez/Cold War history, and it is fascinating to speculate on what might have happened had Jim Callaghan (a wartime RN officer himself, of course) won the 1979 election and still been in No 10.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
Without wishing to sound omniscient, I (like others) said at the time that the success of CORPORATE would send an important message to the Warsaw Pact about British - and, to a degree, NATO - resolve. The seemingly ruthless sinking of the Belgrano, while a tragedy in human terms, would also have impressed the hard men of the Kremlin, in particular. Later that year I spent a few weeks with a (very hospitable) Bundeswehr armoured unit. Many of the officers and SNCOs were warm - indeed, almost effusive - in their praise of the operation, not least citing the enormous distances involved, the concomitant logistics, the Argentine numerical air superiority and, of course, the fighting qualities and tenacity displayed after the early naval and ground-force losses. Those views were, obviously, retrospective; I believe a US Navy assessment at the time of the deployment of the task force considered the retaking of the islands to be virtually impossible. It was certainly an important turning point in our post-Suez/Cold War history, and it is fascinating to speculate on what might have happened had Jim Callaghan (a wartime RN officer himself, of course) won the 1979 election and still been in No 10.
I was exercising at Oxbøl in Denmark. There was rather more of a language problem between us and our hosts than between us and the Bundeswehr. But every morning they brought in their daily paper with Falklands news and pictures (including that picture of the Belgrano) and gave us big smiles and thumbs up. Until they got the Sir Galahad.

We certainly felt that the Danes enjoyed their association, however remote.
 
This has been mentioned before that Falklands and Gulf War 1 helped topple the Communist Empire. That is why our domestic left here in UK would dearly love to sell out the Falklands to the Argies just to stick one up the Tories. If Corbyn had gained any sort of majority last December am sure this would have happened.

You mention what would have been the political outcome if Stoker Jim had won the 1978 GE, not sure. However, I feel if Heath was still PM in 1982 there would have been a fudge and sell out (despite his MiD and MBE Mil).
 
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AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
This has been mentioned before that Falklands and Gulf War 1 helped topple the Communist Empire. That is why our domestic left here in UK would dearly love to sell out the Falklands to the Argies just to stick one up the Tories. If Corbyn had gained any sort of majority last December am sure this would have happened.

You mention what would have been the political outcome if Stoker Jim had won the 1978 GE, not sure. However, I feel if Heath was still PM in 1982 there would have been a fudge and sell out (despite his WW2 MC).
How I felt when I heard they'd taken the Falklands (and after I'd realised they weren't just beyond the Hebrides).

"Well that's that. Government won't put up a fight." I'm delighted to admit I was wrong.
 
This has been mentioned before that Falklands and Gulf War 1 helped topple the Communist Empire. That is why our domestic left here in UK would dearly love to sell out the Falklands to the Argies just to stick one up the Tories. If Corbyn had gained any sort of majority last December am sure this would have happened.

You mention what would have been the political outcome if Stoker Jim had won the 1978 GE, not sure. However, I feel if Heath was still PM in 1982 there would have been a fudge and sell out (despite his WW2 MC).
Well, I certainly wouldn't have put anything past a Corbyn government. With the leftist Fernandez in power in Buenos Aires he could well have sold out the Falklands, and you could probably throw in Gibraltar being returned to Spain. I'm less sure about Heath: for me he remains something of an enigma in many respects. He did fight in France and Germany with the RA, and my gut feeling, for what it's worth, is that he would have stood up to Galtieri, but with much less pugnacity than Thatcher; hard to say what the outcome could have been. (I don't think he won an MC, btw.)
 

QRK2

LE
Well, I certainly wouldn't have put anything past a Corbyn government. With the leftist Fernandez in power in Buenos Aires he could well have sold out the Falklands, and you could probably throw in Gibraltar being returned to Spain. I'm less sure about Heath: for me he remains something of an enigma in many respects. He did fight in France and Germany with the RA, and my gut feeling, for what it's worth, is that he would have stood up to Galtieri, but with much less pugnacity than Thatcher; hard to say what the outcome could have been. (I don't think he won an MC, btw.)

Not sure that it would have needed a particularly left wing government, don't forget that the Conservative government under MT held negations over Falklands sovereignty with Argentina in 1980.
 
Not sure that it would have needed a particularly left wing government, don't forget that the Conservative government under MT held negations over Falklands sovereignty with Argentina in 1980.
More to pay lip service to the UN and please USA. They got nowhere near any sort of deal.
 
Well, I certainly wouldn't have put anything past a Corbyn government. With the leftist Fernandez in power in Buenos Aires he could well have sold out the Falklands, and you could probably throw in Gibraltar being returned to Spain. I'm less sure about Heath: for me he remains something of an enigma in many respects. He did fight in France and Germany with the RA, and my gut feeling, for what it's worth, is that he would have stood up to Galtieri, but with much less pugnacity than Thatcher; hard to say what the outcome could have been. (I don't think he won an MC, btw.)
Apologies off top of my head he had MiD and MBE (Mil).

Heath participated as an adjutant in the Normandy landings, where he met Maurice Schumann, French Foreign Minister under Pompidou.[19] As a temporary major commanding a battery of his own, he provided artillery support during the Allied campaigns in France and Germany in 1944–45, for which he received a mention in despatches on 8 November 1945.[18]
 
I think the important point is made in the link, that whilst the mobilsation and ability to retake the islands was impressive to the Soviets. It was the political will to do it that got them thinking.
Throughout the 70's the Soviets must have had their doubts about many in the British establishment (they had a few of them in their pay) Nothing much was done (overtly) to stop the Soviet invasion and ocupation of Afghanistan so they may have been a little complacent regarding Britains will to enter any conflict.
 
Well, I certainly wouldn't have put anything past a Corbyn government. With the leftist Fernandez in power in Buenos Aires he could well have sold out the Falklands, and you could probably throw in Gibraltar being returned to Spain. I'm less sure about Heath: for me he remains something of an enigma in many respects. He did fight in France and Germany with the RA, and my gut feeling, for what it's worth, is that he would have stood up to Galtieri, but with much less pugnacity than Thatcher; hard to say what the outcome could have been. (I don't think he won an MC, btw.)

Corbyn is incapable of being anything other than a cnut.

His 5 minutes of Power cost £3 a head - and the simpleton didn't factor in that anyone could buy a Membership, not just idealistic, naive teenagers.
 
That's not what TNA papers would indicate.
More the hand of the FCO, UN resolution and Con and Lab Govts involved, at the time sell out would not have got past the HoC?

Failed diplomacy​

In 1965, the United Nations called upon Argentina and the United Kingdom to reach a settlement of the sovereignty dispute. The UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) regarded the islands as a nuisance and barrier to UK trade in South America, so, whilst confident of British sovereignty, was prepared to cede the islands to Argentina. When news of a proposed transfer broke in 1968, elements sympathetic with the plight of the islanders were able to organise an effective Parliamentary lobby to frustrate the FCO plans. Negotiations continued but in general failed to make meaningful progress; the islanders steadfastly refused to consider Argentine sovereignty on one side, whilst Argentina would not compromise over sovereignty on the other.[9] The FCO then sought to make the islands dependent on Argentina, hoping this would make the islanders more amenable to Argentine sovereignty. A Communications Agreement signed in 1971 created an airlink and later YPF, the Argentine oil company, was given a monopoly in the islands.

In 1980, a new Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, Nicholas Ridley, went to the Falklands trying to sell the islanders the benefits of a leaseback scheme, which met with strong opposition from the islanders. On returning to London in December 1980 he reported to parliament but was viciously attacked at what was seen as a sellout. (It was unlikely that leaseback could have succeeded since the British had sought a long-term lease of 99 years, whilst Argentina was pressing for a much shorter period of only 10 years.) At a private committee meeting that evening, it was reported that Ridley cried out: "If we don't do something, they will invade. And there is nothing we could
 

9.414

War Hero
There was an interesting point about the war cabinet that deployed Op Corporate, around the table were 2 chaps with WW2 MC's (Whitelaw and Carrington) and most of them knew what it meant to send troops into combat.

... as did the Archbishop of Canterbury, Robert Runcie, who as a Scots Guards officer got an MC in 1945.

The level of knowledge in recent decades might have stretched to the school CCF.
 
Not sure that it would have needed a particularly left wing government, don't forget that the Conservative government under MT held negations over Falklands sovereignty with Argentina in 1980.
No, not Thatcher's finest hour, but it was early in her administration, and with little to suggest the possibility of an actual Argie invasion, as I understand it - wasn't there some talk of joint sovereignty for a century or so? (Even back then there was a kowtow mindset, or at least an appetite for appeasement, among too many FCO mandarins.) I also seem to recall from that time that Ridley's rather supercilious manner got up pretty well everybody's nose, which didn't help in flavouring subsequent developments.
 
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W21A

LE
Book Reviewer
I came across this article today and found it interesting, both from the initial assessments to the conclusions.
The fact that it may have helped deter Ivan from a bit of aggressive tourism hadn't occurred to me before now and made me pause for a moment. Being part of the Army during the conflict and hving read a fair bit since I enjoyed the non-British POV and found it a nice short article just right for a mug of tea. Any other old and bold may enjoy it too so I'm sharing.


Related. I probably downloaded it from ARRSE originally. Soviet Naval Officers and the Lessons of the Falklands. Conflict. Jacob Kipp.
 

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“Yes we can recover the islands...and we must!" Because if we do not, or if we pussyfoot in our actions and do not achieve complete success, in another few months we shall be living in a different country whose word counts for little."

Admiral Sir Henry Leach
A top man, with two very lovely daughters.
 
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