Russian Surveillance Aircraft lost at sea off Syria

I assume the pilot knows to look out the window, use his RWR etc - seeing the whole point of the flight is ELINT...... or he could have talked to the Syrian AD or Air Traffic net - it's called 'situational awareness'. Please don't try and teach me basic AD principles - 22 years in the trade kind of gives me the edge here.....

Unless you've joined the KGBs with their "evil western stealth aircraft" as an excuse for every Russian failure

You're really letting your dislike for the 4x2s carry you away into the realms of tinfoil conspiracy. Strike packages are pre-planned well in advance, so unless the Jooz knew the Russian flightplan before the operation even launched and factored it in, something either the Syrians didn't know (un-coordinated clowns) or chose to ignore before engaging - (incompetent clowns) you're talking bollocks - why?

As the IDF was down on the ground enjoying a well deserved eggs and definitely not bacon, perhaps rabbit breakfast it's a bit moot
 
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You assume the Coot was aware of the situation...
I rather think Russian crews on IL-20 Coot’s are quite well trained and would have pretty good situational awareness.
 
I assume the pilot knows to look out the window, use his RWR etc - seeing the whole point of the flight is ELINT...... or he could have talked to the Syrian AD or Air Traffic net - it's called 'situational awareness'. Please don't try and teach me basic AD principles - 22 years in the trade kind of gives me the edge here.....
I'm just asking questions, is all.

I'm not trying to teach you anything.

You're in AD, we get that.

But then again, so is Magic Mushroom and he is perfectly able to give polite replies to my questions, even if to him they're naive.
 
You're really letting your dislike for the 4x2s carry you away into the realms of tinfoil conspiracy. Strike packages are pre-planned well in advance, so unless the Jooz knew the Russian flightplan before the operation even launched and factored it in, something either the Syrians didn't know (un-coordinated clowns) or chose to ignore before engaging - (incompetent clowns) you're talking bollocks - why?
I don't have a dislike of the "4x2s". What a strange thing to say.

I would assume the IAF are smart enough to have the nous to use an a/c to mask their movements if an unplanned opportunity arose.
 
I rather think Russian crews on IL-20 Coot’s are quite well trained and would have pretty good situational awareness.
That's true when on station. However, remember that the aircraft was recovering so the mission system was quite possibly powered down and the crew may have left tactical freqs for ATC approach control. In short, the crew may have been entirely unaware of the F-16 activity.

Ultimately however, no fast jet pilot would ever use a foreign slow-mover as 'cover' simply because none would be provided. At the end of the day, even if the F-16 happened to be directly above the COOT (which I severely doubt given the timeline offered by the Russians), even a 1960s vintage S-200 would have been able to easily discriminate between a formation of fast moving and maneuvering F-16s at medium altitude with a slow moving turbo-prop descending and on approach at low altitude.

You defend yourself from radar SAM threats by maintaining energy for manoeuvres and EW.

Being able to do so is literally primary school stuff!

Regards,
MM
 
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So they'd note small things like an S200 being launched against them?
About 20 apparently. I would hope so. But whether they had enough time to take evasive action or take any other action bearing in mind the SA5's were 'command detonated' is doubtful.
 
That's true when on station. However, remember that the aircraft was recovering so the mission system was quite possibly powered down and the crew may have left tactical freqs for ATC approach control. In short, the crew may have been entirely unaware of the F-16 activity.
Quite possibly. I know some of the ELINT we have used in Afghanistan and elsewhere is turned off when approaching, but situational awareness as an example the C130 hit in Iraq, still goes on tmk.

I don't think the F16's were in the area personally, but that's another story.
Ultimately however, no fast jet pilot would never use a foreign slow-mover as 'cover' simply because none would be provided. At the end of the day, even if the F-16 happened to be directly above the COOT (which I severely doubt given the timeline offered by the Russians), even a 1960s vintage S-200 would have been able to easily discriminate between a formation of fast moving and maneuvering F-16s at medium altitude with a slow moving turbo-prop descending and on approach at low altitude.

Being able to do so is literally primary school stuff!

Regards,
MM
I have no knowledge of such, but agree wholly.
 
So they'd note small things like an S200 being launched against them?
The Coot:
"The Il-20 is an ELINT (Electronic Intelligence) platform: it is equipped with a wide array of antennas, IR (Infrared) and Optical sensors, a SLAR (Side-Looking Airborne Radar) and satellite communication equipment for real-time data sharing, the aircraft is Russian Air Force’s premiere spyplane. "

So have a guess.
 
The Coot:
"The Il-20 is an ELINT (Electronic Intelligence) platform: it is equipped with a wide array of antennas, IR (Infrared) and Optical sensors, a SLAR (Side-Looking Airborne Radar) and satellite communication equipment for real-time data sharing, the aircraft is Russian Air Force’s premiere spyplane. "

So have a guess.
Did you just hear a "wooosh" noise? ^^
 
...situational awareness as an example the C130 hit in Iraq, still goes on tmk...
It depends if the Il-20 has a dedicated RWR or Link feed. However, the F-16's APG-68 radar parametrics are (like the majority of AI radars) in the 'EW chaos corner' of 9.3-9.6 GHz which is shared by thousands of other radar types, notably Commercial Navigation H-I band systems fitted to every ship and fishing boat around. There's nothing classified about that; it's just the laws of physics.

As the COOT descended, any RWR pick-ups on the F-16s could well have been lost in the background mush of 'ComNav H-I.'

Regards,
MM
 
It depends if the Il-20 has a dedicated RWR or Link feed. However, the F-16's APG-68 radar parametrics are (like the majority of AI radars) in the 'EW chaos corner' of 9.3-9.6 GHz which is shared by thousands of other radar types, notably Commercial Navigation H-I band systems fitted to every ship and fishing boat around. There's nothing classified about that; it's just the laws of physics.

As the COOT descended, any RWR pick-ups on the F-16s could well have been lost in the background mush of 'ComNav H-I.'

Regards,
MM
Roger, I was thinking more in terms of Mk 1 eyeball. If I stick my head out of a cupola on a C130, I can see quite a bit.
 

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