Russian Surveillance Aircraft lost at sea off Syria

IF the IDF raid was in progress at the time of the COOT entering a hot MEZ SOP would to put a warning to all aircraft in the area on the GUARD frequency in clear - responsibility of the Syrian Air defence and Air Traffic nets........ And if SAM operators can't tell the difference between a flight of fast movers at low level and a single high level slow moving ELINT aircraft they shouldn't be in the job.

But as the IDF was down on the ground collecting tea and medals when the Syrians decided to shoot the Coot it's moot.

I really can't follow the logic of sending S300s and Soviet crews to Syria, they trained the Syrians in the first place - look forward to more red-on-red that they'll try and blame on he Jooz/French/NATO/The CIA/Space lizards
 
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I can only guess. Initially the cause of the catastrophe was not known. So the claim could be just test ball to hear swift French denial. As for CM launches then it is not clear for me - did they took place or not? In theory the French could hit terrorists in Idlib. (...)
So, the investigation strategy was if you don't know what happened, blame everybody who was in the area and see how they respond?
 
.......... But as the IDF was down on the ground collecting tea and medals when the Syrians decided to shoot the Coot it's moot.
Tin foil hat on........

A grand excuse to upgrade to S300s and Soviet crews on the ground in Syria against the loss one Il-20.

Tin foil hat off.

And a chance to blame the Jews.
 
So, the investigation strategy was if you don't know what happened, blame everybody who was in the area and see how they respond?
As long as it did not incriminate Russia, that's it in a nutshell.
Lie, quickly, constantly and not consistently, in order to clog the Internet with chaff.
SOP for Russia.
 
So, the investigation strategy was if you don't know what happened, blame everybody who was in the area and see how they respond?
As I'm aware Russian MoD hasn't claimed that France is responsible for the catastrophe with Il-20. It was claimed that French vessel launched cruise missiles. Strictly speaking it is not an accusation.
It appears that Paris denied that cruise missiles were lainched
Russian 'fake news' machine going mad, says French envoy to U.S. | Reuters
French army spokesman Patrik Steiger denied that France had been involved in the incident or fired any missiles but several hours later Russian media continued to ask the question.

Quoting a military expert, Tass news agency said Paris was partly at fault after launching cruise missiles from the Auvergne.

France’s presidency, Foreign Ministry and Defence Ministry had yet to respond officially to the Russian assertions.
 
Tin foil hat on........

A grand excuse to upgrade to S300s and Soviet crews on the ground in Syria against the loss one Il-20.

Tin foil hat off.

And a chance to blame the Jews.
Surely the Russians couldn't deliberately murder an aircrew just to justify installing a more modern SAM system under their control?
Well, let me think.
Yes, in an instant, if they had thought of it.

Although this still looks more like a Syrian cock up at this time
 
As I'm aware Russian MoD hasn't claimed that France is responsible for the catastrophe with Il-20. It was claimed that French vessel launched cruise missiles. Strictly speaking it is not an accusation.
Factually speaking, it was an out and out lie.
Liar.
 
The Aviationist » Russian Air Force



Just wondering at the timelines in the image produced by the Russian MoD. Initially and then a few days later:

2031 Coot takes off
2200 - 2210 IAF F16's reportedly undertake their attack run
2207 Coot crashes
Israel says their jets returned home. Russia says they were still in the area, but their original map doesn't give timings of either a loiter or return

Their next brief says:
21:39, the channel of "deconfliction" was involved.
21:40 four Israeli F-16 fighters struck in Latakia province, dropping bombs.
22.03 Moscow time. The commander of the crew reported a fire on board and began an emergency reduction.
22:07 the mark of the reconnaissance plane with 15 servicemen on board disappeared from the radar screens, they tell the Ministry of Defense.
22:29 the Russian military informed colleagues in Israel about the beginning of the search operation.
22:40 Israeli fighters left this zone.
22:53 The Israeli Air Force Command Center offered its assistance to the Russian side only at 22:53, 50 minutes after the missile hit the IL-20, Konashenkov noted.

The Aviationist » Russian Air Force
RusDefMin mention missile launches from the French frigate Auvegne:
The Russian Defense Ministry was also quoted as releasing that, “At the same time, the Russian radars fixed missile launches from the French frigate Auvergne, which was in that area”
A bit on the L-20, it seems to be a decent bit of kit and had its fair share of incidents due to the nature of its work:
The Il-20 is an ELINT (Electronic Intelligence) platform: it is equipped with a wide array of antennas, IR (Infrared) and Optical sensors, a SLAR (Side-Looking Airborne Radar) and satellite communication equipment for real-time data sharing, the aircraft is Russian Air Force’s premiere spyplane.

Russian Il-20s regularly perform long-range reconnaissance missions in the Baltic region, flying in international airspace with its transponder turned off; a standard practice for almost all ISR (Intelligence Surveillance Reconnaissance) aircraft. However, at least twice in the last couple of years Russian Coot spyplanes flying close to civilian airports or congested airways were involved in “air proximity” incidents: in March 2014, a SAS Boeing 737 with 132 people almost collided with an Il-20 Coot, about 50 miles to the southwest of Malmö, Sweden; in December 2014, a Canadair CRJ-200 from Cimber Airlines was involved in a near collision with an Il-20 halfway between Ystad, Sweden and Sassnitz, Germany.

In Syria, the aircraft will probably perform intelligence gathering missions, eavesdropping into IS militants communications, detecting their systems’ emissions to build an Electronic Order of Battle of ISIS in the region, and pinpointing their positions. And, as happened in northern Europe, unless their missions are coordinated, there is the risk of a close encounter with a US-led coalition aircraft involved in Operation Inherent Resolve.
 
Surely the Russians couldn't deliberately murder an aircrew just to justify installing a more modern SAM system under their control?
Well, let me think.
Yes, in an instant, if they had thought of it.

Although this still looks more like a Syrian cock up at this time
It was still a 'win' for the Syrians, they wanted to shoot down infidels and did indeed shoot down infidels!

Let's not pretend the average Syrian has any love for Russians any more than they have for Israelis.
 
Let's look at RT

So it could be a mistake or indeed the French launched cruise missiles.

Note, that Paris doesn't deny that there were launches of cruise missiles. It denies involvement in the attack.
Paris doesn't deny and doesn't confirm launches of cruise missiles.
Bollox
Denying any involvement is denying any involvement so no shelling no, no bombers no missiles

Trying to twist a categorical not involved into ah well they didn't list such and such a sysyem is absolute horse shit and simply intended to muddy the waters

If they did say we didn't launch any missiles or aircraft - you would now be suggesting some one had possibly mistaken gunfire for a missile launch as they didn't say they didn't fire the big gun etc
 
Let's look at RT
Let's not, if I wanted to engage in state sponsored propaganda I'd read and believe the work of Dr Goebbels first - you've been told before, don't bother quoting RT or the Daily Mail in a serious forum
 
I can only guess. Initially the cause of the catastrophe was not known. So the claim could be just test ball to hear swift French denial. As for CM launches then it is not clear for me - did they took place or not? In theory the French could hit terrorists in Idlib.
Btw. 18 September all the day I was busy due to some family problems related to a Brother of my wife (veteran of the war in Afghanistan). I missed the statement of Russian MoD. I sincerely believed that version about CM launches was just initial allegation
Well, you know about it now, so the same questions remain.
1. If there was no French missile launch, why did the Russian MOD state that they detected missile launches from a French frigate? Either it is a barefaced lie or there is something wrong with Russian radar technology.
2.if there was a French missile launch, why has the story been suppressed by the Russian media/Russian Government. What are they hiding?

My opinion? It would be very unusual for any Western Government to launch a CM missile attack without announcing it and further denying it afterwards. Not only that, but in the context of Syria, an attack using CMs has only been done to date by joint operations with other NATO forces. The likelihood of the French having conducted a secret CM attack alone or in cooperation with Israel seems vanishingly small. I therefore conclude that the Russian MOD did what they often seem to do, they lied barefaced and without embarrassment about a missile launch that never happened.
 
Well, you know about it now, so the same questions remain.
1. If there was no French missile launch, why did the Russian MOD state that they detected missile launches from a French frigate? Either it is a barefaced lie or there is something wrong with Russian radar technology.
I suppose that it was a move to pressure the French to remove its vessel from the area. There are 25 Russian warships near the Syrian coast and only one French one. This article describes the situation
Méditerranée : chaotique cohabitation entre marines russe et française
Russian MoD claim in fact was a hint that the next time, during the next Israeli air-raid the Syrians could use their powerful anti-ship Bastion missiles ... again by mistake.
2.if there was a French missile launch, why has the story been suppressed by the Russian media/Russian Government. What are they hiding?
I came to a conclusion that there were no any missile launches.
My opinion? It would be very unusual for any Western Government to launch a CM missile attack without announcing it and further denying it afterwards. Not only that, but in the context of Syria, an attack using CMs has only been done to date by joint operations with other NATO forces. The likelihood of the French having conducted a secret CM attack alone or in cooperation with Israel seems vanishingly small. I therefore conclude that the Russian MOD did what they often seem to do, they lied barefaced and without embarrassment about a missile launch that never happened.
I agree with your considerations.
 
I suppose that it was a move to pressure the French to remove its vessel from the area. There are 25 Russian warships near the Syrian coast and only one French one. This article describes the situation
Méditerranée : chaotique cohabitation entre marines russe et française
Russian MoD claim in fact was a hint that the next time, during the next Israeli air-raid the Syrians could use their powerful anti-ship Bastion missiles ... again by mistake.

I came to a conclusion that there were no any missile launches.

I agree with your considerations.
How, then, can you take at face value anything announced by the Russian MOD? The entire chronology could also be just a lie, concocted in order to support their claim that an Israeli F16 went out of it’s way to use the Il-20 as a decoy. They have zero credibility.
 
How, then, can you take at face value anything announced by the Russian MOD? The entire chronology could also be just a lie, concocted in order to support their claim that an Israeli F16 went out of it’s way to use the Il-20 as a decoy. They have zero credibility.
It's politics and politics is a dirty business. As for Russia and US/NATO then both sides don't trust each other. So what credibility do you speak about?
Are reports about CW 'attacks' recent years credible? I doubt.
Were they used by US/NATO just to hit Syria, no matter were they credible or not? Yes.
Was bombing of Syrian government forces in Deir-Ez-Zor by US/NATO jets indeed a mistake? I strongly suspect that it was made intentionally.
Moscow sends S-300 systems to Syria. EW equipment will be used near Syrian coast including jamming GPS signals. I believe it is credible information.
 
.......DACT, fictional F-16 pilot throws mission plan out of window to hide behind COOT - stall speed of a COOT? About 100mph, Stall speed for a F-16? considerably higher - "impossible to hide behind" - if only you knew something about military aircraft, radars, principles of flight etc, eh KGBs?

Now can we get back to the real point of this thread - who were the biggest clowns, Syrian AD or Russian SIGINT crew?

Take a day off from being putin's apologist and blaming the Jooz/Americans for all your country's ****-ups
 
...Russian MoD claim in fact was a hint that the next time, during the next Israeli air-raid the Syrians could use their powerful anti-ship Bastion missiles ... again by mistake...
Firing ASMs into the Eastern Med as a response to Israeli air strikes just about sums up Russian and Syrian logic and attempts to obfuscate on this matter. Unbelievable!

...Are reports about CW 'attacks' recent years credible? I doubt...
Just about the rest of the entire World disagrees, including independent UN inspectors, just as even your own citizens find Russian excuses about your use of CW on UK territory farcical.

Regards,
MM
 
It's politics and politics is a dirty business. As for Russia and US/NATO then both sides don't trust each other. So what credibility do you speak about?
NATO has credibility, Russia just lies to varying degrees. In this case blatant lies from the differing timelines to Fr CM launch to agreements at a meeting and publicly saying something different.
Are reports about CW 'attacks' recent years credible? I doubt.
Despite a Russian agreed, unanimous UNSC Resolution including ToRs, JIM which found against Assad and Russia vetoing the JIM four times.
Were they used by US/NATO just to hit Syria, no matter were they credible or not? Yes.
FrUKUS did
Was bombing of Syrian government forces in Deir-Ez-Zor by US/NATO jets indeed a mistake? I strongly suspect that it was made intentionally.
I ‘highly likely’ think you’re wrong. Again
Moscow sends S-300 systems to Syria. EW equipment will be used near Syrian coast including jamming GPS signals. I believe it is credible information.
No doubts at all. Escalation rather than addressing the core issues of ROE, target identification etc.
 
.......DACT, fictional F-16 pilot throws mission plan out of window to hide behind COOT - stall speed of a COOT? About 100mph, Stall speed for a F-16? considerably higher - "impossible to hide behind" - if only you knew something about military aircraft, radars, principles of flight etc, eh KGBs?

Now can we get back to the real point of this thread - who were the biggest clowns, Syrian AD or Russian SIGINT crew?

Take a day off from being putin's apologist and blaming the Jooz/Americans for all your country's ****-ups
why would the Coot be flying near stall speed?
 
While I can see how and why Sergei engenders strong responses, I do wish people would stop trying to bolster their counter points by insinuating anti Semitism.
 

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