Russian Surveillance Aircraft lost at sea off Syria

The Russian air force for one, cretin.

Remember, it was the SYRIANS who shot down a RUSSIAN aircraft with old RUSSIAN made missiles.

Unless of course, it was a highly trained Russian PVO officer like you who pressed the big red button and killed his own countrymen out of stupidity and incompetence.
Lets not forget that highly trained US sailors operating an extremely sophisticated AEGIS destroyer shot down an A300 killing 290 because they thought it was an attacking F14.

Even though it was squawking civilian IFF.
 
So...Russian trained monkeys using obsolete Russian weapons shoot down Russian aircraft.
Solution- Send more deadly Rusdian weapon system to monkeys, to be trained by Russians...
I can see some small technical problems here.

What a very Russian solution, to leverage the incompetence of its clients to allow it to install a more capable weapon system, allegedly under its own control, in the area to bolster its own influence.
However, if it is under Russian control, it won't impress the Israelis if they lose an aircraft to it. They will just mallet it.

So the local chimps instructed by the Russian gibbons will still be left to shoot down anything that flies.

It is rather like solving the problem of a village idiot who shoots the neighbour's cats with an air gun by giving him a shotgun and ammunition.
Ultimately, you are just enabling the idiot to do more damage.
Hector, you are so diplomatic and complimentary. One funny is just not enough.
 
There are some features of S-200 AD system that make it not sufficiently effective. Yes, it is long range system with ability to down air-targets in distances up to 200km and more. But it is not precise enough. Its radar is not so sophisticated as modern ones. S-200 is unble to detect and target low flying objects (lower than 300m).
It is not right to underestimate the Syrians, their level of knowledge. Merely their hardware is obsolete, outdated. With modern S-300 the Syrians would make Israeli air-strikes not as simple as one could think.
Compare these cars (both are VW Golf)


Place the best driver sportsman on the first car and he would be far beyond me on a good autobahn if I would be given the second car.
To be frank, whether a chimp is driving a Maserati or a Trebant, it’s still a chimp. It goes back to my earlier point that you ignored, the training of the operators. They need training on:

1. ROE. What can be fired at, when and on whose say so

2. Target identification. If you’re going to fire your missiles blind, (as appears to have been the case on this instance, the FrUKUS attack on CW installations and on the earlier IDF F16 shoot down); you need to make sure they know the difference between a single engine jet fighter and a four engine turboprop for starters. Let alone the difference between a Su57 and a F35.

3. Training on the kit itself. There’s a difference between a SA5 and SA10 that even I as a ‘Pongo Scaley’ can tell.

All of the above, especially 1 & 2 need doing now or you’re likely to be making the same posts, ranting about the IDF, when in fact you should be looking closer to home yet again.

You could always review Iranian support and supply of missiles and other weaponry to Hezbollah, but that’s another story
 
To be fair to KGB resident I expect they are even more surprised at this news than the rest of us.............after all they are the only poster in this thread who had previously said that Russia WON'T supply Syria with the S300 system!

This is an interesting move Fromm the Russian state, while it's an obvious statement that they have no faith in their Syrian ally it's also a statement that Russian 'specialists' will be in charge of the new systems and thus will have the final say on any SAM firings.

As any SAM fired at an IDF aircraft is very likely to get an IDF response this means Russia are putting Russian personnel in harms way, it's not like the old Cold War days whereby the Soviets and Americans tried to avoid killing each other's advisors.

As for GLONASS sing less suseptable to jamming that's just back to the usual Russian porky pie obsession.
 
To be frank, whether a chimp is driving a Maserati or a Trebant, it’s still a chimp. It goes back to my earlier point that you ignored, the training of the operators. They need training on:

1. ROE. What can be fired at, when and on whose say so

2. Target identification. If you’re going to fire your missiles blind, (as appears to have been the case on this instance, the FrUKUS attack on CW installations and on the earlier IDF F16 shoot down); you need to make sure they know the difference between a single engine jet fighter and a four engine turboprop for starters. Let alone the difference between a Su57 and a F35.

3. Training on the kit itself. There’s a difference between a SA5 and SA10 that even I as a ‘Pongo Scaley’ can tell.

All of the above, especially 1 & 2 need doing now or you’re likely to be making the same posts, ranting about the IDF, when in fact you should be looking closer to home yet again.

You could always review Iranian support and supply of missiles and other weaponry to Hezbollah, but that’s another story
I strongly suspect that S-300s that allegedly will be delivered to Syria would have Iranian chief operators (with Russian supervisers). They had enough time to investigate their S-300s, to be trained in matters you have mentioned. Hardly you would call the Iranian AD specialists as 'chimps'. If the Russians using their more capable radars on the ground, radars on warships and sattelite gathered intelligence would share it with the Syrians then IAF would be in a very difficult position.
 
I strongly suspect that S-300s that allegedly will be delivered to Syria would have Iranian chief operators (with Russian supervisers). They had enough time to investigate their S-300s, to be trained in matters you have mentioned. Hardly you would call the Iranian AD specialists as 'chimps'.
I haven't much experience of Iranian AD specialists to be fair. I've always found someone is only as good as the trainer. So hopefully the trainers won't be from the Russian 53rd AA Bde.
If the Russians using their more capable radars on the ground, radars on warships and sattelite gathered intelligence would share it with the Syrians then IAF would be in a very difficult position.
Possibly. All this talk of escalation when in reality, it's down to training on ROEs and target identification. That and whether the supply of missiles etc, to Hezbollah is in fact the right way to go.
 
Russia to give Syria S-300 air defense after accusations against Israel | Reuters
Oh well, escalation is the name of the game. Giving the Syrian military better equipment to shoot down aircraft. S-300 to be delivered in two weeks:
Last week’s crash, which killed 15 Russian service members, had forced Moscow to take “adequate retaliatory measures to increase the safety of Russian military fighting international terrorism in Syria,” Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu said on Monday in a televised address.

“A modern S-300 air defense missile system will be transferred to the Syrian armed forces within two weeks,” he said. The system will “significantly increase the Syrian army’s combat capabilities,” he said.
E2A: Interfax news - Interfax
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Expert believes Russia is creating no-fly zone over part of Syria


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Putin, al-Assad have phone conversation, discuss situation in Syria - media

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Lets not forget that highly trained US sailors operating an extremely sophisticated AEGIS destroyer shot down an A300 killing 290 because they thought it was an attacking F14.

Even though it was squawking civilian IFF.
And that would be relevant to the 21st century - how? "Whataboutism" in defence of the Soviet Union? I think your account's been hacked......
 
And that would be relevant to the 21st century - how? "Whataboutism" in defence of the Soviet Union? I think your account's been hacked......
The subject of the thread is a mistake / series of mistakes made by highly stressed service personnel, operating in a congested airspace leading to untimely death.

People are tacitly laughing at the silly Syrians / idiot Russians for splashing one of their own, killing 14 servicemen, when a supposedly highly skilled, trained and capable US platform splashed a civilian a/c killing 290 civilians.

Thats how its relevant.

And the Soviet Union no longer exists.
 
The subject of the thread is a mistake / series of mistakes made by highly stressed service personnel, operating in a congested airspace leading to untimely death.

People are tacitly laughing at the silly Syrians / idiot Russians for splashing one of their own, killing 14 servicemen, when a supposedly highly skilled, trained and capable US platform splashed a civilian a/c killing 290 civilians.

Thats how its relevant.

And the Soviet Union no longer exists.
That justification is right out of the KGB playbook, tell BB his account's been hacked, antisemitism and and defence of the Motherland, bit of a giveaway.
 
What actually is the argument here? I have tried reading the thread but what exactly is being suggested? A deliberate act and not and accident? That the Israelis somehow orchestrated it? Or was the West?
Different people are arguing different things.

At the present time the most likely explanation is that it was an accident that was aggravated by how the Israelis conducted their attack. There is no evidence that the this was planned as such by the Israelis. Rather, there is a set of rules agreed upon by Israel and Russia together, but given the complex situation in a crowded airspace these rules don't cover all eventualities and the Russian plane was caught in the line of fire between the Israelis and the Syrians before it could get out of the way.
 
.......so responsibility rests with the Fire Unit Commander.......
And the KGBs and followers don't like the simple rules of SAM employment

Of course if BB wants to go all retro he could have pointed out the Mirage the Argies lost to one of their SAM units, or......well, anything else since Wasserfall's test firings, but hacked BB decided to use an example that the KGBs used to excuse the shooting down of a civilian airliner over Ukraine.....as a part of their 'whataboutary' - he could have had the alleged Viscount shot-down over the Irish Sea in '68....
 
That justification is right out of the KGB playbook, tell BB his account's been hacked, antisemitism and and defence of the Motherland, bit of a giveaway.
You didn't understand how the USS Vincennes incident could possibly resonate with the recent one involving a Coot.

You had an intemperate pop; I explained, you made yourself look a bit silly, you're sulking.

Or maybe you genuinely can't see any similarities between the two incidents?
 
.......so responsibility rests with the Fire Unit Commander.......
And the KGBs and followers don't like the simple rules of SAM employment

Of course if BB wants to go all retro he could have pointed out the Mirage the Argies lost to one of their SAM units, or......well, anything else since Wasserfall's test firings, but hacked BB decided to use an example that the KGBs used to excuse the shooting down of a civilian airliner over Ukraine.....as a part of their 'whataboutary' - he could have had the alleged Viscount shot-down over the Irish Sea in '68....
I think the usual response to replies such as this is #Triggered.
 
So, I am an old romantic.
You do not deny being a lying propagandist baboon for the war criminal Putin.
Which of us is worse?
 

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