Russian Surveillance Aircraft lost at sea off Syria

yes, yes, good try, a failure, but good try, now, have you washed your mug like Tonya asked?
Haven't you heard? Tonya has quit the troll farm and is now working in a massage parlour in Luton. Like any respectable Russian girl would.
 
.......she always aspired to better herself, and frankly taking up the 'oldest profession' could only be a step up, at least at the end of a shift she wouldn't feel so dirty, disgusted, used and filled with self-loathing over the perversions she had to perform

And of course she wouldn't have to remind the punters to clean-up after themselves.......
 
Russin MoD sounded the timeline (Moscow time)
Израиль нарушил договоренность: Минобороны огласило данные о катастрофе Ил-20
21:39 Israeli colonel warned about the strike via telephone
21:40 The strike happened
One of F-16's approached IL-20
20:03 Il-20 was hit by Syrian missile.
20:07 Il-20 vanished from radar screens
20:29 The Israelis were informed about rescue operation
20:40 Israeli planes abandoned the zone
20:53 The Israelis proposed their help.
We’re at an impasse then, as the Israeli’s say their planes were back in their airspace by the time the IL-20 was hit. Who to believe ........ ?
The notification was received by the command of the group of Russian troops in Syria from the command of the Air Force of Israel from the man in the rank of colonel at 21:39, the channel of "deconflexing" was involved. And as early as 21:40 four Israeli F-16 fighters struck in Latakia province, dropping bombs.
The missile of Syrian air defense struck IL-20 at 22:03 Moscow time.

At the same time, he specified that the missile of Syrian air defense struck the plane at 22.03 Moscow time. The commander of the crew reported a fire on board and began an emergency reduction. At 22:07 the mark of the reconnaissance plane with 15 servicemen on board disappeared from the radar screens, they tell the Ministry of Defense.
At 22:29 the Russian military informed colleagues in Israel about the beginning of the search operation. Only at 22:40 Israeli fighters left this zone. The Israeli Air Force Command Center offered its assistance to the Russian side only at 22:53 - 50 minutes after the missile hit the IL-20, Konashenkov noted.
Konashenkov blames the Israeli’s, and says nothing about the Syrian AD units pressing the triggers or failure to identify their target. A lumbering four engine turboprop Coot over a single engine jet fighter:
According to the conclusion of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, all these data testify either to the lack of professionalism of the pilots-fighters of the Air Force of Israel, or about their criminal negligence. "We believe that the blame for the tragedy with the Russian Il-20 aircraft lies entirely with the Israeli air forces and those who made a decision about this kind of activity," concluded Konashenkov.

He specifically noted that the actions of the Israeli Air Force threatened not only the military, but also transport and civilian aircraft, as the fighters maneuvered in the area of the approaches to the landing of the airfield Khmeimim.
https://m.jpost.com/Israel-News/Russia-Israel-provided-false-information-regarding-downing-of-Il-20-567792
The Israeli’s obviously deny the Russian viewpoint and say over 20 SAMs were fired. None of which appear to have hit any of the four F16’s and only the Coot:
“There was no provocation against the Ilyushin,” said a senior IDF official on condition of anonymity, explaining that over 20 anti-aircraft missiles were fired by the Syrian regime in an irresponsible manner which put other planes at risk.

“We proved how the Syrian reckless anti-air fire was the direct cause of hitting the Russian aircraft," he said. "They fired quite recklessly and irresponsibly and unprofessionally into the air long after our planes were no longer there."
 
yes, yes, good try, a failure, but good try, now, have you washed your mug like Tonya asked?
Tonya can do one until she learns to refill the samovar when it's empty. I don't care if she got awarded 'troll of the month' twice on Twitter for greatest amount of school shooting memes, she's gotta pull her considerable weight too.
 
she's gotta pull her considerable weight too.
Considerable weight? But....but......she sent me this photo.....
1537699361301.jpeg
....you mean Russians lie?

And KGBs, can you confirm "Weapons tight" until your bozos and puppets have actually learned how to conduct SAM ops? Offer's still there for a correspondence course.... 5% discount if you send Tonya over for 'liaison'
 
Russin MoD sounded the timeline (Moscow time)
Израиль нарушил договоренность: Минобороны огласило данные о катастрофе Ил-20
21:39 Israeli colonel warned about the strike via telephone
21:40 The strike happened
One of F-16's approached IL-20
20:03 Il-20 was hit by Syrian missile.
20:07 Il-20 vanished from radar screens
20:29 The Israelis were informed about rescue operation
20:40 Israeli planes abandoned the zone
20:53 The Israelis proposed their help.
Priceless!

So in summary, Russia’s own figures state that the Il-20 was shot down an hour and a half BEFORE the Israeli strike occurred!!!

However, I’ll give the @KGB_resident morning shift the benefit of the doubt and assume they’ve messed up the figures.

So, a single F-16 ‘approached’ the Il-20 at 1940. However, there’s no indication of how far it ‘approached’, what the relative altitudes were, and what the track behaviour was of each aircraft.

At 2003, the Il-20 was hit by the SAM. However, in the intervening 23 minutes, and assuming manoeuvres made for an average F-16 speed of 420kts (7 miles a minute), the Israeli aircraft could have been over 160 miles away by then.

Moreover, the F-16’s mean heading was likely to have been away from Syria at this stage (remember that Moscow has admitted the strike occurred at 1940...I think!), and that of the COOT towards Syria. Therefore, the F-16 could well have been almost 200nm away from the Russian aircraft when the engagement occurred.

Finally, the Russians claim the Israelis ‘abandoned the zone’ at 2040, yet do not define what ‘the zone’ is.

None of which however is relevant in the slightest given that, even if the F-16 had been directly overhead the COOT in a bizarre and unique tactic to use the Russian SIGINT collector as a ‘shield’, even a 1960s origin target illumination radar should have been able to distinguish between the 2! If that was not the case due to Israeli jamming or the Russian aircrew not adhering to ID criteria, the Syrians should not have engaged.

Regards,
MM
 
I suppose that Russians on Syrian airbase highly likely are soldiers.
You wrote

So you wrote that there were US CM attacks in Syria. Of course it is true.
But you also claim that during one of such attacks some Russians were killed. It is something new for me.
I doubt that it really happened.
Without you reference to reliable news-source I regard further discussion pointless.

You may continue to present yourself as self-feeding shiteater. It is your right.
It hasn't taken you long to descend into complete stupidity in this thread has it :)

Perhaps sat behind your desk and typing on balf of Russia you are too stupid (you could of course just be telling lies) to know the difference between soldiers, sailors or airmen. Perhaps you are too stupid (or just telling lies) to accept that on a Russian navy ship you are likely to find sailors, on the front line on the ground you are likely to find Russian soldiers and you are likely to find airmen in the Russian accommodation of an air base where the Russian Air Force have personnel.!!

As for talking shit, all of us here (with the possible exception of you personally) have seen the complete rubbish your avatar posters have tried to assert is true in the Salisbury attack thread, this thread and the various other threads covering aviation such as the SU24 shootdown, the S400 place,ent in Syria and the shootdown of MH17.
Your assertions have been shown to be 100% wrong in all of those threads, and you have shown yourself to either be a liar or an idiot again today.

In your drive to push more Russian state lies you have published an account from the Russian government that is supposed to show the timeline of the shootdown.

You should be aware that your avatar posters previously told us that you were an Air Defence officer at one time.

IF you are an air defence specialist you WILL SEE the glaringly obvious flaw in the timeline.

I can see it, you can either see it too and are posting the timeline knowing it to be wrong, or have no idea what you are talking about.

If you want any more clues as to whether you know what you are taking about, have a think back to the SU24 shootdown thread where posters here were telling you SU24s were flying over Turkey daily, a day you said they weren't, facts and the shoot down showed you to be wrong.

In the Salisbury attack thread you carried on pretending/telling lies/being clueless about progress in the investigation for over three months AFTER the suspects had been identified and named. I even suggested weeks before the public release of the names that they were known and asked about the de briefings the suspects would have been having in Russia.

You may remember saying you thought that Yulia Skripal was dead.... and then you tried to change your line of attack once you saw she was alive.........you could have just admitted you were wrong.

As a final point for now, if you don't understand that Russian civilians or airmen are more likely to be found with the Russian Air Force then maybe ARRSE isn't the best website for you to be posting on a Syrian perhaps you are out of your depth.
 
Now now Sergey, swearing in CA?
I'm not a native English speaker, you know.
For me difference between unacceptable swearing and acceptable in CA expressions is too subtle to make a decision.
https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/t...eriments-the-proof.277788/page-2#post-8598076
No shit sherlock, perhaps that's why @Oyibo called it a parchute record card in post #11 ;)
I see the MODs haven't made any warning.
However, generally you are right. Only parliamentary expressions should be used in CA.
But who am I to decide?
 
Priceless!

So in summary, Russia’s own figures state that the Il-20 was shot down an hour and a half BEFORE the Israeli strike occurred!!!

However, I’ll give the @KGB_resident morning shift the benefit of the doubt and assume they’ve messed up the figures.

So, a single F-16 ‘approached’ the Il-20 at 1940. However, there’s no indication of how far it ‘approached’, what the relative altitudes were, and what the track behaviour was of each aircraft.

At 2003, the Il-20 was hit by the SAM. However, in the intervening 23 minutes, and assuming manoeuvres made for an average F-16 speed of 420kts (7 miles a minute), the Israeli aircraft could have been over 160 miles away by then.

Moreover, the F-16’s mean heading was likely to have been away from Syria at this stage (remember that Moscow has admitted the strike occurred at 1940...I think!), and that of the COOT towards Syria. Therefore, the F-16 could well have been almost 200nm away from the Russian aircraft when the engagement occurred.

Finally, the Russians claim the Israelis ‘abandoned the zone’ at 2040, yet do not define what ‘the zone’ is.

None of which however is relevant in the slightest given that, even if the F-16 had been directly overhead the COOT in a bizarre and unique tactic to use the Russian SIGINT collector as a ‘shield’, even a 1960s origin target illumination radar should have been able to distinguish between the 2! If that was not the case due to Israeli jamming or the Russian aircrew not adhering to ID criteria, the Syrians should not have engaged.

Regards,
MM
Any human being has a natural feature - to make mistakes. I'm not an exception.
I'm typed 20 instead of 22 several times. The time-line according to Russian MoD looks this way
21:39 Israeli colonel warned about the strike via telephone
21:40 The strike happened
One of F-16's approached IL-20
22:03 Il-20 was hit by Syrian missile.
22:07 Il-20 vanished from radar screens
22:29 The Israelis were informed about rescue operation
22:40 Israeli planes abandoned the zone
22:53 The Israelis proposed their help.
RT presents description of Russian MoD presentation.
‘Criminal negligence’ or disregard to Russia-Israel ties: MoD details chronology of Il-20 downing
 
Last edited:
Priceless!

So in summary, Russia’s own figures state that the Il-20 was shot down an hour and a half BEFORE the Israeli strike occurred!!!

However, I’ll give the @KGB_resident morning shift the benefit of the doubt and assume they’ve messed up the figures.

So, a single F-16 ‘approached’ the Il-20 at 1940. However, there’s no indication of how far it ‘approached’, what the relative altitudes were, and what the track behaviour was of each aircraft.

At 2003, the Il-20 was hit by the SAM. However, in the intervening 23 minutes, and assuming manoeuvres made for an average F-16 speed of 420kts (7 miles a minute), the Israeli aircraft could have been over 160 miles away by then.

Moreover, the F-16’s mean heading was likely to have been away from Syria at this stage (remember that Moscow has admitted the strike occurred at 1940...I think!), and that of the COOT towards Syria. Therefore, the F-16 could well have been almost 200nm away from the Russian aircraft when the engagement occurred.

Finally, the Russians claim the Israelis ‘abandoned the zone’ at 2040, yet do not define what ‘the zone’ is.

None of which however is relevant in the slightest given that, even if the F-16 had been directly overhead the COOT in a bizarre and unique tactic to use the Russian SIGINT collector as a ‘shield’, even a 1960s origin target illumination radar should have been able to distinguish between the 2! If that was not the case due to Israeli jamming or the Russian aircrew not adhering to ID criteria, the Syrians should not have engaged.

Regards,
MM
You may have forgotten about one of the very special qualities of the Russian AD systems in Syria.

Have a think back to when KGB resident (a former air defence officer) was telling us all about how long the detection range of the S400 was.

You will already know that not only are Russian SAMs quite good, that they will have IFF and even the older system involved here has quite a good range and the radars involved with the system can see quite far.

Now, the big flaw with Russian SAMs seems to be that although they can see quite far in distance, they can't see very far in time so simply decided not to tell the Syrian crews they had seen any aircraft until too late.
It seems that if the Israelis hadn't given any warning the crew might not fired at all.
It's almost as though the radars weren't looking in the first place or that the S400s weren't looking and that Russia wasn't monitoring the air space at all.

Some of the above may be tongue in cheek.
 
Any human being has a natural feature - to make mistakes. I'm not an exception.
I'm typed 20 instead of 22 several times. The time-line according to Russian MoD looks this way
21:39 Israeli colonel warned about the strike via telephone
21:40 The strike happened
One of F-16's approached IL-20
22:03 Il-20 was hit by Syrian missile.
22:07 Il-20 vanished from radar screens
22:29 The Israelis were informed about rescue operation
22:40 Israeli planes abandoned the zone
22:53 The Israelis proposed their help.
But it's still a pack of lies, and you as a former air defence officer would know why!!!!!!
 
I'm not a native English speaker, you know.
For me difference between unacceptable swearing and acceptable in CA expressions is too subtle to make a decision.
https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/t...eriments-the-proof.277788/page-2#post-8598076

I see the MODs haven't made any warning.
However, generally you are right. Only parliamentary expressions should be used in CA.
But who am I to decide?
You complete moron.
You have just typed shiteater and are now trying to complain about the word shit.

No wonder the world sees the Russian state as a bunch of cry babies.
NO ONE FORCED YOU TO TYPE SHIT EATER DID THEY? You decided to type it and have now asked who are you to decide.

Now, back to your back tracking about me pointing out why I didn't say soldier when I was referring to the Russian Air Force.
I couldn't care less if you say you doubt it happened, you weren't there (that's fact) and so can't know with any certainty any more than me.
 
Any human being has a natural feature - to make mistakes. I'm not an exception.
I'm typed 20 instead of 22 several times. The time-line according to Russian MoD looks this way
21:39 Israeli colonel warned about the strike via telephone
21:40 The strike happened
One of F-16's approached IL-20
22:03 Il-20 was hit by Syrian missile.
22:07 Il-20 vanished from radar screens
22:29 The Israelis were informed about rescue operation
22:40 Israeli planes abandoned the zone
22:53 The Israelis proposed their help.
RT presents description of Russian MoD presentation.
‘Criminal negligence’ or disregard to Russia-Israel ties: MoD details chronology of Il-20 downing
You’re genuinely trying to say the four F16’s loitered in the area for an hour? That 23 minutes after the attack an Israeli F16 got near to the IL-20? That you’re blaming Israel for a lack of training of Syrian AD units and their habit of lobbing multiple SAMs in the air in the vain hope of hitting something?

It takes something to believe and promote agitprop, but you’re acing it today.
 
Bit of thread drift, apology in advance.

I'm thinking of writing a fiction novel about military aviation in the Middle East.
I have come up with a fictional idea involving a skirmish between two Middle Eastern countries, one of them has aircraft and personnel from a European Air Force helping them.
The main thrust of the story centre's on a European aircraft being shot down by its ally while the other Middle Eastern country also has aircraft in the air.
The European Air Force try to put the blame anywhere but on their ally in the region.

Now, here's the part I need help with. The European Air Force want to blame the country that's not their ally and want to pretend they didn't know the aircraft from the other country were approaching.
How can I write it so the European country can put up graphics showing the full flight plan of all the aircraft involved, yet at the same time saying they didn't know the flight plan of all the aircraft and so were caught by surprise.

How can I write fiction that says the Europeans were completely surprised by aircraft they already not only knew were in the air, but where they were!
 

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