Russian Surveillance Aircraft lost at sea off Syria

Conclusion (of course you probably disagree with it) - it would be wise for Israel to stop air-raids in Syria at least in the near future.
Oh, by the bye, just to awaken you from your dreams of The Four Horsemen.
It was those Syrians what shot down your aeroplane.
 
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I would like to repeat that it is imaginary scenario. The new Russian leader after propper warning orders to bomb Israeli military airports with very simple condition to stop it - terminate Israeli air-raids in Syria.

Russia just now is in a conflict with the USA and NATO. So there is nothing new. There are sanctions, expulsions of diplomats, What the West could do if Russia would bomb Israeli military airports? Israel at time bombed Gaza and what had been done? Nothing. So why the reaction should be different? I tell you (maybe bitter) truth. The West would urge Israel to stop air-raids in Syria to calm the conflict.

But what Washington could do in this imaginary situation? In fact nothing. Washington with support of its numerous allies was unable to remove Assad from power. Maybe you believe that Washington is almighty?

As maximum it would end by empty words as in the cases with Georgia, Crimea, Donbass.
What HMG could do? Nothing.
.
... in comparison with Syria, Egypt - yes. But in comparison with Russia it is a small state with bounded resources, with supplies routes that can be easily cut. In the case of military conflict tankers with oil would be legitimate targets...

It is impossible without fuel. Meanwhile the Palestinians would use this situation and Hezbollah as well.

Without nuclear weapons, step by step Israeli military potential could be reduced to almost zero level

At time Israel used to bomb Lebanon at will. Hezbollah retaliated by missiles. As a result the last Lebanese war was unleashed. After it Israel dare not to bomb Lebanon because it understands language of force. So why Hezbollah was able to force Israel to stop air-raids in Lebanon but Russia is unable to stop air-raids in Syria?

How many devoted friends Israel has. With such friends it doesn't need enemies.

Israel is really a small (but of course very influental) country, but you hugely overestimates its capabilities.

Mr.Zhirinovsky btw is half-Jewish himself. He is political clown and will not be elected.
As for moron Putin then he would appear in a very difficult situation if during the next air-raid even one Russian serviceman would be killed under Israeli bomb or missile.

Conclusion (of course you probably disagree with it) - it would be wise for Israel to stop air-raids in Syria at least in the near future.

Somehow I don't think you understand the facts of life. Russian Forces in Syria are outnumbered by the IDF, and your ability to reinforce them would be nill. The US would back Israel in a heart beat, just like we would the Brits. You would find our ability to kick you in the balls and step on your throat to be quite real, in case you forget you and the Chinese are who we are training to fight in a near peer conflict. Syria is a long way from the Motherland comrades, even a thick Yank can tell you that without looking at a map and you are not the Soviet Union anymore with the capabilities to mach your former self.
 
I've just had a catch up on this thread.

Yet again, as with any thread involving anything Russian there is at least one troll spouting rediculous scenarios to prove Russia is strong and no on either can go against them, it was the same in the Skripal thread, Su24 shootdown thread, MH17 thread, Crimea thread etc etc.

Wouldn't it be nice if the trolls (or more correctly, their bosses) could understand that the constant 'big timing' sounds just as impotent and rediculous as Jim Carey in the film Liar liar when he picks up his car from the car pound!

I sometimes have to remind myself that the trolls are simply shiny arse office bods, and not servicemen. Perhaps this is why they don't see a common bond that most service personnel have with each other regardless of what country they are from.
 
....Conclusion (of course you probably disagree with it) - it would be wise for Israel to stop air-raids in Syria at least in the near future.
A couple of realistic conclusions rather than your Soviet puppetry wishing for WW3. Try a bit of ‘de-escalation’ rather than ‘escalating’:

Review Syrian AD ROEs. Less of the ‘fire and forget’ and more ‘target identification’ training.​
Stop Iran (and their proxies) lobbing rockets etc. at Israel​
Stop Iran supplying Hezbollah with more rockets​
The above are likely to decrease the chances of such an incident happening again. In fact the latter two are wholly likely to reduce if not stop Israeli strikes.
 
Somehow I don't think you understand the facts of life. Russian Forces in Syria are outnumbered by the IDF, and your ability to reinforce them would be nill. The US would back Israel in a heart beat, just like we would the Brits. You would find our ability to kick you in the balls and step on your throat to be quite real, in case you forget you and the Chinese are who we are training to fight in a near peer conflict. Syria is a long way from the Motherland comrades, even a thick Yank can tell you that without looking at a map and you are not the Soviet Union anymore with the capabilities to mach your former self.
Remember when Yeltsin demanded overflight across Hungarian airspace in 1999 so his forces could back-up his fellow Slavs and carve out an enclave of his own help NATO forces on the ground? Remember how the Hungarians, Bulgarians and Romanians pointed out that if they tried it uninvited the life insurance premiums for Soviet Paratroopers and Il-62 aircrew would increase by 1,000%?

- The Washington Post

Russia has even fewer friends now.......and Turkey is a NATO country.....
 
Remember when Yeltsin demanded overflight across Hungarian airspace in 1999 so his forces could back-up his fellow Slavs and carve out an enclave of his own help NATO forces on the ground? Remember how the Hungarians, Bulgarians and Romanians pointed out that if they tried it uninvited the life insurance premiums for Soviet Paratroopers and Il-62 aircrew would increase by 1,000%?

- The Washington Post

Russia has even fewer friends now.......and Turkey is a NATO country.....
In Theory Turkey is a NATO member, but they just lost F-35 privileges. They are getting a bit to chummy with the Ivan's and are turning into something Ataturk did not envision.
 
Somehow I don't think you understand the facts of life. Russian Forces in Syria are outnumbered by the IDF, and your ability to reinforce them would be nill.
I ask a very simple question that I held previously.
Suppose (God forbid) a new Russian leader orders to bomb Israeli military airports with demand to stop air-raids in Syria.
1) What exactly Israel could do in this situation?
The US would back Israel in a heart beat,
2) Well, what Washington could do exacly?
...just like we would the Brits.
3) What HMG could do?
I answer my questions. Washngton and London would urge Israel to terminate all air-raids in Syria.
It is the only realistic and viable solution.
 
Popular Russian tabloid KP.RU describes nervous atmosphere during meeting of 2 heads of air-forces - gen.Norkin (IAF) and gen.Surovkin (RuAF).
Как глава ВВС Израиля оправдывался в Москве за сбитый Ил-20
KP's military observer Viktor Baranets used his undisclosed source in Russian MoD
Surovikin and Norkin greeted each other, shook hands and together with accompanying persons sat opposite each other at long tables. I noticed that all of our people had very severe faces, and the Israelis did not make diplomatic smiles. Everyone understood that the situation is not propper - the conversation will be very difficult.
What gen.Norkin has said
IAF attacked objects of the Syrian army that (with a reservation - supposedly!) produced weapons for Hezbollah, which (and here again - supposedly!) was intended for use against Israel, fueling a threat
So gen.Norkin recognised that Israel just bombed Syrian military objects quite near Russian bases. He also said
Israel believes that Iran and Hezbollah are responsible for this tragic incident
Gen. Surovikin ... made it clear ...that it was the actions of Israeli aviation that provoked the tragedy that day. And again reminded the guests of the words of Russian MoD Shoigu: "The fault for the downed Russian plane and the death of the crew lies entirely on the Israeli side." This is our principal position.
- And the question of why the Israelis informed us only a minute before the moment when their fighters broke into the Syrian sky had been sounded?
- Of course! According to the expression on faces of the people of the delegation, it was obvious that this was a very, very unpleasant question for them. Moreover, both Surovikin and our other officers reminded them of our long-standing, still 2015, agreements on "rules of the game."
- And how did the Israelis react to this question?
- Pleonastically and unclear. Even the interpreter picked up words with difficulty. And when they said that "the Syrian anti-aircraft batteries shot indiscriminately," and then "we [the Israelis] have unfortunately not bothered to make sure that there are no Russian planes in the air"
It is clear that Israeli and Russian military commanders haven't found common langauge even taken into account that many IAF officers are native Russian speakers.
It looks as Russian generals only wait for the political decision to resolve the problem using methods familiar to them. As for moron Putin then he would be in a very difficult political situation if something similar will happen again.
 
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In Theory Turkey is a NATO member, but they just lost F-35 privileges. They are getting a bit to chummy with the Ivan's and are turning into something Ataturk did not envision.
Lose the cover of Article 5, get thrown out of NATO? would it be worth it just to suck vlad's cock? If we're playing KGB's fantasy Holocaust scenario, Immediate NATO membership extended to Israel, putin left in no doubt what would happen if the west's orange supplies and IDF hotties photo stockpile was damaged.....game over
 
Popular Russian tabloid KP.RU describes nervous atmosphere during meeting of 2 heads of air-forces - gen.Norkin (IAF) and gen.Surovkin (RuAF).
Как глава ВВС Израиля оправдывался в Москве за сбитый Ил-20
KP's military observer Viktor Baranets used his undisclosed source in Russian MoD

What gen.Norkin has said

So gen.Norkin recognised that Israel just bombed Syrian military objects quite near Russian bases. He also said





It is clear that Israeli and Russian military commanders haven't found common langauge even taken into account that many IAF officers are native Russian speakers.
It looks as Russian generals only wait for the political decision to resolve the problem using methods familiar to them. As for moron Putin then he would be in a very difficult political situation if something similar will happen again.
So, in this tissue of lies, fantasies and self justification, it boils down to a vague accusation that the Israelis accepted responsibility for the Syrians shooting down a Russian aircraft with their Russian supplied weapons, by not checking to see if Russia was operating aircraft?

Just how does that work again?
Is it up to the Israelis to phone the Syrians to say:
"Hey, fellas. We are about to bomb the shit out of some of those Iranian pricks you are letting run your country. Please turn off your air defences, in case some of those Russian pricks are flying over your country, bombing your citizens, and you shoot them down by accident. We don't want to upset the Russians, do we?"
 
However our KGB PVO expert tries to twist it the Fire Control Unit Engagement Officer fucked-up, the blame rests with him, if you want to follow his piss-poor training and blame the Syrian AD, that's fine, If you want to include the Russians arrogant and crap co-ordination, that's fine

Trying to blame the Jooz, French, Lizard people is just spouting bollocks, which to be fair, is the KGB day job
 
I ask a very simple question that I held previously.
Suppose (God forbid) a new Russian leader orders to bomb Israeli military airports with demand to stop air-raids in Syria.
1) What exactly Israel could do in this situation?
Try to shoot down your aircraft and based on historical evidence succeed. To speak in language you might appreciate Israel is the political equivalent of a gulag rat caught in the corner of a hut full of starving prisoners. If you attack it it will fight, every time until it is dead. Since Israel is a nuclear armed rat this will not happen because your leaders are thankfully slightly more intelligent than you.
 
Try to shoot down your aircraft and based on historical evidence succeed. To speak in language you might appreciate Israel is the political equivalent of a gulag rat caught in the corner of a hut full of starving prisoners. If you attack it it will fight, every time until it is dead. Since Israel is a nuclear armed rat this will not happen because your leaders are thankfully slightly more intelligent than you.
I was thinking more along the lines of: Start bombing more targets in Syria, and let Syrian AD units shoot down all the Russian planes.
 
Popular Russian tabloid
A bit like the Sun then? Some one sided viewpoints. Stoking the fires and banging the drum?
It looks as Russian generals only wait for the political decision to resolve the problem using methods familiar to them. As for moron Putin then he would be in a very difficult political situation if something similar will happen again.
I read that article using Google translate and to me it seemed that both sides reiterated their respective positions again. The 50 page Israeli dossier was received and the Russians said they were conducting their own investigation.

You also missed this bit for some reason:
Surovikin once again reminded the Israeli delegation of the point of view of the Russian Defense Ministry, which was voiced by Shoigu. Well, agree to continue contacts. They also said that after such a tragedy, serious amendments must be made to the Russian-Israeli agreements that were established three years ago.
Which implies they’re not ‘going to war’ as your ‘sabre rattling’ implies, but they will remain in contact, review the 2015 agreement and make amendments as necessary.
 
I might be missing something here, but I’m pretty sure I remember @KGB_resident bragging about how god the latest air defence system is that Russia installed in Latakia or somewhere. That it was so good that it would dominate the entire Eastern Mediterranean.

And yet, somehow, the Israelis managed to launch an air attack that completely caught them with with their pants down, and they are bleating about how the Israelis only give them one minute of warning.

Are you now telling us that the much vaunted S300 or S400 (whichever it is) can’t identify an attack profile by F16’s? Am I the only one to find this contradiction a little surprising?
 
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It's a shame that the troll has to keep pushing stupid scenarios, but I suppose that's their job and they probably think they are posting rubbish too.

We are now having to read their nonsense of what might/could happen to Israel even though the IDF has done ABSOLUTELY ZERO to the Russian Air Force.

Meanwhile, for a clue as to what might happen, cast your mind back to to the American cruise missile attack on a Syrian air base where some Russians were also killed if you want to see what might happen.
We are right back to the Jim Carey car pound situation from the film Liar Liar.

I can't help noticing the trolls have neglected to reference the cruise missile attack when discussing possible outcomes, and suggesting a change of Russian leader doesn't cut it either..........we've only just seen the re election of Putin so he isn't going anywhere soon.
 
I've just had a catch up on this thread.

Yet again, as with any thread involving anything Russian there is at least one troll spouting rediculous scenarios to prove Russia is strong and no on either can go against them, it was the same in the Skripal thread, Su24 shootdown thread, MH17 thread, Crimea thread etc etc.

Wouldn't it be nice if the trolls (or more correctly, their bosses) could understand that the constant 'big timing' sounds just as impotent and rediculous as Jim Carey in the film Liar liar when he picks up his car from the car pound!

I sometimes have to remind myself that the trolls are simply shiny arse office bods, and not servicemen. Perhaps this is why they don't see a common bond that most service personnel have with each other regardless of what country they are from.
I don't think Sergei is actually trolling, just (understandably) putting forward the case for his homeland.
If anyone is genuinely troubled by what he says, the Ignore function is available.
Pitting forward a contrary opinion and point of view goes some way to stopping this place becoming a tedious echo chamber.
 
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As I have referenced Jim Carey's in Liar Liar I may as well show the scene.
In the analogy Jim Carey is akin to an honest Russian troll, lots of bluster but a realisation that they are actually powerless to do any more than puff and puff in the face of an opponent who knows they don't have anything to worry about.

 

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