Russian Surveillance Aircraft lost at sea off Syria

I also read somewhere that the IDF pilots were using the Russian plane as cover, But that does not mean that it is true.
You say that the IDF is to blame, but if the Russians were not there and if they had not supplied their anti-air systems to Syria then the Russian plane would not have been shot down. I suppose they are all to blame to some extent.

As for the Russian anti-air missle system. I thought they were supposed to be the best in the World, yet they can not distinguish between Israeli F16s and a Russian IL-20?

I would also like to know if the Russians had their transponder and IFF turned off?
My comment was made in reply to something another poster said. Little point in going around that particular bouy again since the conjecture was trumped when Magic Mushroom commented.
Frankly he is the Go To person for this kinda stuff (when Meerkatz / Photex is otherwise engaged, of course. )
 
Soviet imperialist mindset still alive and kicking - the empire (eg, USA) should decide whether a country on the other side of the globe (eg, Syria) may defend itself from a neighbouring country (eg, Israel).
Erm, that statement cuts a number of ways.
 
Yes actually, because it's nothing new. The Russians tried it on before with the Israelis. They got their posteriors handed to them on a plate as I recall.

Operation Rimon 20 - Wikipedia
Would be interesting to see how the rather more capable current Russian a/c would fare against the IDF.
F35 would AIUI breeze it BVR against Su35s etc but up close in a turning dogfight?
And let's not forget recent revelations about Russian willingness to use tac nukes against NATO... If things escalated, would they consider sane against Israel?
And even if the qualitative advantage lies with the Kosher side, quantity has a quality all if it's own...
 
Yep, the Americans (even under Agent Orange) would sit around and say nothing while vlad threw tac nukes about..... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I mean it's not as if the 4x2s ever had their own buckets of instant sunshine either...... Soviets against IDF? I'll have a few shekels on David

Put down the turps BB
 
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Would be interesting to see how the rather more capable current Russian a/c would fare against the IDF.
F35 would AIUI breeze it BVR against Su35s etc but up close in a turning dogfight?
And let's not forget recent revelations about Russian willingness to use tac nukes against NATO... If things escalated, would they consider sane against Israel?
And even if the qualitative advantage lies with the Kosher side, quantity has a quality all if it's own...

And of course, the Israelis would just sit back and let the Russians nuke them over some raggedy assed Syrians....

your anti Israeli fixation seems to have gone into maximum overdrive.
 
F35 would AIUI breeze it BVR against Su35s etc but up close in a turning dogfight?
Nope, F35 isn't going to be stealthy with air-air ordnance, and Su35 can throw an awful lot more missiles in the air. The whole point with F35 is not to get into an air-air shot-trading situation in the first place.
 
Yep, the Americans (even under Agent Orange) would sit around and say nothing while vlad threw tac nukes about..... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Well. In his fantasy, Vlad will have to take out the IDFs long range early warning radar systems.... oh, what’s that? Some are American and American manned.
Yes, Trump woukd just shrug when hundreds of US technical staff get nuked by Putin
 
Yes actually, because it's nothing new. The Russians tried it on before with the Israelis. They got their posteriors handed to them on a plate as I recall.

Operation Rimon 20 - Wikipedia
Would be interesting to see how the rather more capable current Russian a/c would fare against the IDF.
F35 would AIUI breeze it BVR against Su35s etc but up close in a turning dogfight?
And let's not forget recent revelations about Russian willingness to use tac nukes against NATO... If things escalated, would they consider sane against Israel?
And even if the qualitative advantage lies with the Kosher side, quantity has a quality all if it's own...
And of course, the Israelis would just sit back and let the Russians nuke them over some raggedy assed Syrians....

your anti Israeli fixation seems to have gone into maximum overdrive.
The discussion is about the IDF and their involvement or not in recent events.
It's hardly an Israeli fixation going into maximum overdrive. It's a core piece of the discussion.
I'm not sure how Israel would cope with tac nukes from a world power with a gargantuan nuclear arsenal such as that possessed by Russia but I'm sure the Universal Guru And Pantechnicon Fountain Of All Knowledge will be able to educate us all...
 
Would be interesting to see how the rather more capable current Russian a/c would fare against the IDF.
F35 would AIUI breeze it BVR against Su35s etc but up close in a turning dogfight?
And let's not forget recent revelations about Russian willingness to use tac nukes against NATO... If things escalated, would they consider sane against Israel?
And even if the qualitative advantage lies with the Kosher side, quantity has a quality all if it's own...
The discussion is about the IDF and their involvement or not in recent events.
It's hardly an Israeli fixation going into maximum overdrive. It's a core piece of the discussion.
I'm not sure how Israel would cope with tac nukes from a world power with a gargantuan nuclear arsenal such as that possessed by Russia but I'm sure the Universal Guru And Pantechnicon Fountain Of All Knowledge will be able to educate us all...

Dear boy, the US was willing to go to war with the Russians in 1973 over Israel, nothing changed, except the Israelis now have their own very large and formidable nuclear arsenal.
So sorry, calm down, israel isn’t gone to get a final solution, no matter how much you imagine it.
 
Yep, the Americans (even under Agent Orange) would sit around and say nothing while vlad threw tac nukes about..... :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I mean it's not as if the 4x2s ever had their own buckets of instant sunshine either...... Soviets against IDF? I'll have a few shekels on David

Put down the turps BB
You don't seem to be aware of recent Russian doctrine about using tac nukes against NATO.
Who have a rather larger nuclear arsenal than Israel.
 
but up close in a turning dogfight?
FFS, not this again, you don't dogfight, you twat the other guy as far away as possible using everything your strike package has, sensors, EW, BVR engagement, SEAD etc ect.

You want to dog fight? Buy Sopwith Camels
 
Dear boy, the US was willing to go to war with the Russians in 1973 over Israel, nothing changed, except the Israelis now have their own very large and formidable nuclear arsenal.
So sorry, calm down, israel isn’t gone to get a final solution, no matter how much you imagine it.
Of course.
The discussion is about possibilities, not absolutes.
Do keep up.
 
FFS, not this again, you don't dogfight, you twat the other guy as far away as possible using everything your strike package has, sensors, EW, BVR engagement, SEAD etc ect.

You want to dog fight? Buy Sopwith Camels
Err... that what I said.
BVR, F35 wins.
Read before replying, dude.
 
Would be interesting to see how the rather more capable current Russian a/c would fare against the IDF.
F35 would AIUI breeze it BVR against Su35s etc but up close in a turning dogfight?
And let's not forget recent revelations about Russian willingness to use tac nukes against NATO... If things escalated, would they consider sane against Israel?
And even if the qualitative advantage lies with the Kosher side, quantity has a quality all if it's own...
Why would the Israelis let them get close? What quantity in the immediate vicinity of Israel would it be that the Sov... Russians have exactly? It might also be worth remembering that the Russian planes will be maintained by those with a taste for best sipping anti-freeze. It's a cultural thing apparently.

Russia nukes Israel you say? Try googling "Jericho III". Vlad's an evil little"brown smelly sausage shape" but he isn't stupid.
 
You don't seem to be aware of recent Russian doctrine about using tac nukes against NATO.
Who have a rather larger nuclear arsenal than Israel.
That's Soviet doctrine, crossing out Советский военный план «Теплый щенок» and replacing the word "Soviet" with "Russian" doesn't make it any more relevant or viable, despite what vlad the Cold War nostalgist might want to think, sorry.
 
And of course, the Israelis would just sit back and let the Russians nuke them over some raggedy assed Syrians....

your anti Israeli fixation seems to have gone into maximum overdrive.
He's not Jeremy Corbyn in disguise is he?
 
FFS, not this again, you don't dogfight, you twat the other guy as far away as possible using everything your strike package has, sensors, EW, BVR engagement, SEAD etc ect.

You want to dog fight? Buy Sopwith Camels

Hush! Russia Stronk!
They had to fire 4 S-200’s at a low and slow turboprop to get it, but magically, Russia can sweep one of the best equipped and most competent airforces in the world away in his latest anti Israeli fantasy.
 
Err... that what I said.
BVR, F35 wins.
Read before replying, dude.
What bit of 'they don't dogfight' didn't you understand? I get a little weary of the fantasists that bang on about Flankers and dog-fighting just because they've seen the footage of the adjustable nozzles which are great for airshows but useless in the real world
 

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