Russian EW/Cyber doctrine

#21
Buying key bits of infrastructure kits from potentially hostile nations with a long history of state sponsored hacking is stupidity of the highest order.

They'd never dream of putting any back doors in for example.

Wordsmith :mad:
Best not buy American then...
 
#22
GDPR kicks in May 28th - which means companies can be hit with much heavier fines for a significant data breach. At the moment I think big companies think paying the currently much smaller fines is cheaper than hiring IT staff to plug the holes. That attitude may changes when the first few companies get hit with £20 million fines.
I doubt that will happen in practice. Guess how many times the ICO has levied the maximum £500k fine that's available to it since the 1998 Data Protection Act was introduced....


0.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#24
An underlying problem is that countries like China and Russia employ far larger teams of stare sponsored hackers than we do. With China, I suspect the main motive is commercial - it a lot cheaper to steal research than to carry it out. With Russia becoming increasingly impoverished due to the kleptomaniac in charge, having a small army of hackers is one way Putin can stay in both the military and commercial games.

Wordsmith
 
#25
Slight thread drift but a related topic, there are a number 'lessons' for the west as to Russian capabilities that have come out in recent conflicts:

A New Eastern Front: What the U.S. Army Must Learn From the War in Ukraine

One of them being that NATO troops need to take camouflaging their vehicles better, and quicker.
There are very few 'new' lessons to be learned in the military world, but many NATO troops have only worked in environments where there are vehicle parks, shops and lighting at night where they are deployed.
The article mentions that the Ukrainian vehicles resemble bushes but doesn't say what spectrums they are designed to counter.
The older posters here were used to having vehicles cammed up with scrim and nets immediately they were parked up but that was to counter the mk1 eyeball and black and white recce film. To counter colour video/image FLIR or thermal is a whole different ball game.
I wonder just how well hidden the Ukrainian vehicles are to a thermal or IR camera.
Plus, if they are using real foliage that will show up too as dead foliage looks different to living foliage.
I realise all of the above is pretty obvious, and that cam kit has improved to counter newer threats, but the tech for defeating cam has increased too.
 
#26
There are very few 'new' lessons to be learned in the military world, but many NATO troops have only worked in environments where there are vehicle parks, shops and lighting at night where they are deployed.
The article mentions that the Ukrainian vehicles resemble bushes but doesn't say what spectrums they are designed to counter.
The older posters here were used to having vehicles cammed up with scrim and nets immediately they were parked up but that was to counter the mk1 eyeball and black and white recce film. To counter colour video/image FLIR or thermal is a whole different ball game.
I wonder just how well hidden the Ukrainian vehicles are to a thermal or IR camera.
Plus, if they are using real foliage that will show up too as dead foliage looks different to living foliage.
I realise all of the above is pretty obvious, and that cam kit has improved to counter newer threats, but the tech for defeating cam has increased too.
Thanks. That's informative. Every day's a learning on this forum.

I knew about the foliage, or at least I did until I had forgotten about it until I read your post.

Ukraine's eastern front, if I can call it that, has settled into a static stalemate so maybe the 'lessons' will be a bit different if a becomes a full blown shooting match.
 

Wordsmith

LE
Book Reviewer
#27
Plus, if they are using real foliage that will show up too as dead foliage looks different to living foliage.
After the WW2 Bruneval raid, where some paratroops snatched a German Wurzburg radar, the Germans were keen to prevent a repetition, so they put barbed wire around all the remaining radar sites. Grass grows well under barbed wire - it can't be cut - so all the remaining sites stuck out like sore thumbs on subsequent PR photos.

The radar was spotted in the first place because the operators took the shortest path from the chateau they were billeted in to the radar emplacement - wearing a track through the grass. That track drew the photographic interpreter's attention to the radar in the first place.

Some things don't change.

Wordsmith
 
#28
Reminds me of a story about Sir John Moore – from Wikipedia:

“He had a reputation as an exceptionally humane leader and trainer of men; it is said that when new buildings were being constructed at the camp and the architect asked him where the paths should go, he told him to wait some months and see where the men walked, then put the paths there.”
 
#29
Slight thread drift but a related topic, there are a number 'lessons' for the west as to Russian capabilities that have come out in recent conflicts:

A New Eastern Front: What the U.S. Army Must Learn From the War in Ukraine

One of them being that NATO troops need to take camouflaging their vehicles better, and quicker.
Interesting
Really interesting summary of the head of Russian army EW's contributions to Military Thought:

Russia’s Evolving Electronic Warfare Capability: Unlocking Asymmetric Potential

three points, really - first, they see it in terms of deep battle, as the operational depth. second, they want to be an independent arm of service, declared as a combat rather than combat-support function. third, they include anti-radiation weapons and they have plenty of those.
EMR disablement
SPE
RSGW
Heterogeneous EW weapon
EFI



What?????
 
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#30
GCHQ does check the kit, at least some of it.
Vendor H, at least, actively boasts that its products are certified by CESG (the defensive bit of GCHQ) and seems to see this as a selling point. I have no idea what this means between us and the cousins, who thought anything Huawei was like AIDS on a stick even before the beef about Iran sanctions.

As far as ZTE goes, you pays your money and takes your choice. Very much the "down to a price, not up to a standard" last chicken in the shop option.
 
#31
Interesting

EMR disablement
SPE
RSGW
Heterogeneous EW weapon
EFI



What?????
That Boris definitely likes his TLAs, but I reckon the first is classic EW - jamming and spoofing - a "radio self guided weapon" would be something like HARM that homes on a radio transmitter, heterogeneous is just saying they want to coordinate different fires to achieve effect, and EFI is that effect. Not sure about "special programs effect" - maybe spook stuff.
 
#32
An underlying problem is that countries like China and Russia employ far larger teams of stare sponsored hackers than we do. With China, I suspect the main motive is commercial - it a lot cheaper to steal research than to carry it out. With Russia becoming increasingly impoverished due to the kleptomaniac in charge, having a small army of hackers is one way Putin can stay in both the military and commercial games.

Wordsmith
True, but -

The function of Soviet and now Russian I intelligence has always been the theft of industrial secrets.

The security services of Russia are probably one of the few secure and well paid jobs. Especially with access to technology. Were I to have been "Boumerski", i don't doubt i would have made for a career in FSB high-tech.

We can't retain our cybernauts due to alternative options.

Oh, and partially them necessarily being 'curious' people, and governments doing curious things. For example, stop Wannacry. Have your ID dox'd, and then get nicked (for something else, but he could not have been in a position to stop Wannacry without the previous experience).

WannaCry hack hero in court as experts accuse US government of 'bizarre and very problematic prosecution'
 
#36
Broadcasting Rick Astley through your headset continuously.
Yes but note the Russians don’t care if they jam themselves

The Russians will be using Western technology against them, attacking the networks, the CIS links, the UAVs.

NATO would need to go after the choke points, the massed armour and the massed Arty.
 
#37
NATO would need to go after the choke points, the massed armour and the massed Arty.
Which, in the absence of the accustomed permissive EW environment, will be down to flinging more bangy stuff their way than they're flinging at us.

Manoeuvre warfare is all very well, right up to the point you're trying to dislocate a 210mm airburst
 
#38
Which, in the absence of the accustomed permissive EW environment, will be down to flinging more bangy stuff their way than they're flinging at us.

Manoeuvre warfare is all very well, right up to the point you're trying to dislocate a 210mm airburst
Absolutely and realistically the West will need to employ a lot of AirPower to overcome the Russian arty
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#39
Whereas Goering had to use nasty bangy stuff to try and wreck our infrastructure, I suspect Russia's chosen means is Cyber which can, if our Govt and key companies and utilities haven't hardened their operations by now, bring sections of our highly centralised economy down quite badly. You want bread? The TV series 'Inside the Factory' showed how a huge proportion of our national needs in this and other things depends on single facilities. In the bad old seventies my employer had big diesel gennies as a backup if the miners turned uppity again - I suspect that sort of investment has long since ceased, along with, for instance, the London Underground having its own private power supply. Percy Pongo doesn't have a part in this.
 
#40
Interesting article referring to the recent intelligence conference in Tel Aviv, lifted from The Jerusalem Post:

German military intelligence chief Georg Miarka spoke at the conference about his country being on track to “fully digitizing all land forces and related intelligence by 2032.”
These efforts will include integrating automation, artificial intelligence and robotics into German ground forces, he said.
While Miarka admitted this move would expose Germany to more cyberattacks, he said it was an important move and such that his country must also strengthen its counter-intelligence capabilities and backup plans in case its systems are hacked.
‘By 2025, constant satellite feed will aid targeted killings’

"It is an important move" said the lemming, citing the broad groundswell of public opinion which favours free base jumping.
 
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