Russia hails avenging killer a hero

Was Vitaly Kaloyev justified?

  • Yes I know I would have done the same, or worse

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, nothing justifies going outside the law

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • If more people behaved like this the World would be a better place

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The rest of the Skyguide should be topped as well

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It’s a disgrace! Typical unprovoked Russian aggression!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A knife eh? Must have been personal

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
#1
AS a killer convicted of stabbing a man to death, Vitaly Kaloyev could expect to be shunned upon his release from prison.

In Russia, however, the 52-year-old architect, who killed the air traffic controller blamed for the plane crash in which he lost his wife and two children, is being treated as a national hero.

The Russian government is said to have lobbied hard to secure his early release. After landing in Moscow he thanked Vladimir Putin, the Russian president. “I’m not a hero. I’m an ordinary guy,” he said recently. “As for those people who lined the streets, they just care about their children and other people’s children. People ask me if I feel any remorse. There’s only one thing I regret. That I’ve lost my family and my life is ruined.”

Kaloyev was building a holiday villa in Spain for a wealthy Russian when his wife Svetlana, 44, 10-year-old son Konstantin and four-year-old daughter Diana, set out to join him for a holiday in July 2002. As their plane flew over Germany it collided with a cargo jet killing all 71 people on board, most of them Russian schoolchildren.

Investigators later established that Peter Nielsen, a Dane working for Skyguide, the Swiss air-traffic control service at Zurich airport, was the only person on duty. He had panicked when he realised the two planes were on a collision course and gave wrong instructions to the pilots.

“I was at the airport waiting to pick up my family when I was told of the crash,” Kaloyev recalled. “I immediately flew to Germany to the crash site and for days walked round the fields looking for my wife and children. I found my children’s remains, washed them and laid them to rest in their coffins.”

Like other bereaved relatives, Kaloyev grew angry at the slow pace of the investigation and the way Skyguide, fearful of lawsuits, sought to place the blame on others.

“I wanted Skyguide to at least apologise, instead all I got was lies about the Russian pilots being to blame,” he said. In February 2004, he flew to Zurich to seek a meeting with representatives of Skyguide. When they refused to see him he sought out Nielsen at his house. “I wanted to talk to him. I wanted an explanation, an apology,” he recalled.

“I was very calm when I knocked on his door. He came out. I told him that I was from Russia and I asked him to let me in, but he unexpectedly shut the door behind him. I said, ‘Okay,’ and pulled out pictures of my children’s grave. Nielsen pushed my hand away, waving at me to go. The pictures fell on the ground. When they fell, I felt that Nielsen had killed my children all over again. Everything turned black, I couldn’t see anything.”

Kaloyev claims he cannot remember what happened next, but does not deny stabbing Nielsen several times with a pocket knife. Kaloyev was arrested the following day and was sentenced to eight years for manslaughter. His sentence was later reduced after a Swiss judge ruled that he had acted with diminished responsibility.

Last year four Skyguide employees were found guilty of negligent homicide in a separate case that examined the events that led to the 2002 crash. Three middle-level managers were given suspended jail sentences and another received a suspended fine of £6,000.

Kaloyev believes the killing speeded up the crash investigation. “People ask me if I’ve forgiven Nielsen,” he said. “Why should I? All I did was protect the memory of my children.
In full

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3341803.ece
 
#2
Quite understand how he feels, I would be pretty annoyed if people were dragging their feet over an investigation. Particularly trying to pass the buck.

It is those who are still alive that often carry the crushing burden of watching an apathetic lack lustre investigation in to various affairs.

Was he wrong to stab the guy, yes. On the other hand, how exactly did all the details of the guys house etc. get out?
 
#3
It is a rare case then I have a moral right to vote. I voted - No.

However, I understand feelings of the poor man... Indeed he is poor, he is rather a victim himself. If our Swiss friends would make swift investigation and jail the poor (againg poor) dispatcher then he would be saved.

I believe that the true cause of the killing was slowness of the justice.
 
#4
Last year four Skyguide employees were found guilty of negligent homicide in a separate case that examined the events that led to the 2002 crash. Three middle-level managers were given suspended jail sentences and another received a suspended fine of £6,000.
I take it the victims of their neglience were given suspended sentances of, er, death? No didn't think so. If they were neglient they need banging up, not a cushy punishment.

That way others in the same profession will wake up and ensure they do not fall in to the same trap.
 
#5
Has The Times run out of negative material to publish about Russia that it recycles a month old "news"?

As for the poll, Its easy to pass the judgement on a non-personal issue. I didn't vote for the first option because it was not my tragedy and therefore I can think straight, but under his circumstances I would've probably done the same.
 
#6
from reading the article it seems that his main justification for killing

the controller was the fact he had to avenge his loss- a classic eye for and

eye. It is long thought that pressure was put on the

swiss for a light sentence

I wonder will the air traffic controllers son think the same and come a

hunting the man who killed his father
 
#7
'An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind' MK Gandhi.

He was insane with grief but that doesn't justify his actions, his obsessive seeking out of this man who made a mistake doing his job probably means he should be in a secure hospital.
The real tragedy is that people think he is a hero rather than a grief stricken crank who should be given treatment.
Who hasn't goofed when doing their job? When I am making decisions where lives are at stake I have learned experienced( (thanks Q) people checking them, the controller was on his own, it shouldn't happen and is a classic example of why air traffic control shouldn't be privatised
 
#8
If the Law fails to protect people, or does not bring killers to Justice, then it loses all moral authority.

Is this man a hero? No. Would I do the same if I, God forbid, were in his situation. Probably.

Oh, and Ghandi was shot to death. So I'd be careful about taking his advice... :roll:
 
#9
So was John Lennon, shall I stop listening to the Beatles?

Martin Luther King and JFK too yet Idi Amin died quietly in a palace an old man , maybe I should quote him instead he must be talking sense..

I hear the old idealogue Henry Kissinger is still going strong.

It seems talking arrse is the key to a long life, lucky for you eh Frank? :D
 
#10
Only the good die young, so my immortality is assured. :twisted:

Why the fcuk would you listen to the Beatles in the first place? They're sh1te. Living(apart from Lennon)proof that millions of people CAN be wrong. :roll:

I'll think about you're hero bleeding out into his nappy the next time I have a curry! :D :twisted:
 
#11
He wasn't my hero, he was wrong about alot of things but he had integrity and balls of steel. Values that may be familiar to those in the services.

The point was the quote, not my taste in music, I don't want to take it any further off topic, the controller made a mistake, but those who left skyguide undermanned were to blame.
Revenge never solved anything but as I said before the real tragedy is that people believe he's a hero. He made children fatherless, a wife husbandless and transmitted the consequences a tragedy which was avoidable but by no means any great proportion Neilsen's fault still further.
 
#12
I agree that the controller's employers were as much, if not more so, to blame as he was. The fact remains that his incompetance left a lot of children fatherless and motherless, and robbed many people of lovers, husbands and wifes.

As I stated before, I do not consider the Russian to be a hero, just a man driven to extremes by the failure of a legal system to deliver justice.

I have no problem at all with the concept of revenge. I believe that UNLIMITED forgiveness is at best misguided and stupid, at worst it is cowerdice.

We can, of course, agree to differ.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
#13
Personally, if Skyguide had behaved towards me in the manner that they behaved towards this father; refusing to meet him, blaming everyone else, and then have the controller treat you with such contempt when you went to see him, yep, I'd have killed him if it had been my family wiped out.
 
#14
Biped- How do you know what happened between them? If a man riven by grief had tracked you down, flown thousands of miles to your front door and wanted to come in to your house where your wife and kids were wouldn't you have stood between him and them, lots of bravado not enough self analysis going on here.

You should read Gandhis views on cowardice Frank- would have answered your concerns perfectly.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#15
A dane, in Switzerland, causing a crash of a russian plane and a British plane owned by an Australian over germany murdered by a Russian..

I blame all the foreigners.
 
#16
There was more to this accident than negligence by the individual Air Traffic Controller.

The Russian crew did not follow the command generated by the collision avoidance system onboard their aircraft. The system - known as TCAS - generates an emergency avoidance manoeuvre, and if both aircraft are equipped (mandatory for airliners) the manoeuvre will be automatcially co-ordinated as the aircraft systems communicate with each other.

The ACAS resolution commanded the DHL freighter to descend and the Russian airliner to climb. The Air Traffic Controller is not informed of direction of the resolution manoeuvre by the systems (it all happens very quickly) and he unfortunately gave different instructions to the Russians, which was further compounded by erronoeus advice as to the position and level of the conflict. In such situations the pilots should always follow the TCAS command. Tragically, the Russian crew ignored their TCAS and descended as instucted by the controller.

The investigation showed that the regulations pertaining to TCAS provided by the Russian airline to it's crews was contrary to internationally accepted standards. It would be reasonable to infer that the training provided by the airline would be consistent with it's documentation, further re-inforcing incorrect procedures.

The Russian authorities appeared to disagree with the Swiss investigation that the actions of their crew were a contributory factor in the accident.

I think it is worth bearing in mind that the only person who was actually deliberately killed in this whole tragedy is the controller. Moreover, I am surprised that anyone who also bears the responsibility of working in situations where mistakes cost lives can condone the actions of Vitaly Kaloyev.

What are your views if we transpose the situation to a scenario closer to home? Let's say that overstretch and partially unserviceable equipment combine with mistakes at both ends to cause a fratricide. A grief stricken father then murders the lowly soldier/gunner/pilot whose final error received the highest publicity in a very politically charged investigation. Still feel the same?

Sympathy for his original loss - yes

Condone his subsequent actions - definitely not

Making him into a national hero for political reasons - sickening
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#17
Alfie, excellent post. Glad I clicked 'no' now too.

Russian IA bad, so why allowed to fly in western airspace?

I would have thought a ban on all a/c until they equal global standards would re-inforce actions.
 
#18
Hold on a second, AlfieNoakes, mattspanic! Who made him into a "national hero"? Our Western media!
Does he have supporters who think of him as a martyr? Yes. It's their personal opinion, not an official opinion of Russian government, nor an opinion of the majority of Russian people who have more pressing things on their mind.
Newspapers must be sold, hence sensationalist and misleading headings.
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#19
Domovoy said:
Hold on a second, AlfieNoakes, mattspanic! Who made him into a "national hero"? Our Western media!
Does he have supporters who think of him as a martyr? Yes. It's their personal opinion, not an official opinion of Russian government, nor an opinion of the majority of Russian people who have more pressing things on their mind.
Newspapers must be sold, hence sensationalist and misleading headings.
Dear Russkie,

As a life long reader of the News of the World I must write to refute your allegation that our western media is sensationalist and misleading. It is free and can be trusted implicitly, rather unlike your TAS and the renamed Communist Times (now Perestroyka Times).

Indeed, I recall only the other day reading that foreigners were coming to our country and stealing all our jobs and when I walked into the post office, there was a black person behind the Margrets till, whatever happened to poor Margret I don't know. Chucked into a ditch by some modern youth with their modern rap music I expect.

I thank the media every day for ensuring that we are among the best informed of all nations. Such as of the 45 minutes threat from Iraqi incontinental WMD missiles, indeed, I didn't know that they had such capability after the first UN sanctions but apparently SCUD was capable and so its just as well as we invaded.

Quite how you expect me to believe that my media is a sensationalist headline lying bunch of scum is beyond me. Next you will be accusing our British Broadcasting Corporation of being leftest and eliest.

Kindly yours,

Mr Angry
 
#20
Mr Happy said:
Domovoy said:
Hold on a second, AlfieNoakes, mattspanic! Who made him into a "national hero"? Our Western media!
Does he have supporters who think of him as a martyr? Yes. It's their personal opinion, not an official opinion of Russian government, nor an opinion of the majority of Russian people who have more pressing things on their mind.
Newspapers must be sold, hence sensationalist and misleading headings.
Dear Russkie,

As a life long reader of the News of the World...
Yes it is one of the most serious news-sources in the UK. News of the World is a newspaper for true intellectuals and too few editions (with notable exception of the Sun) could compete with it in ... stupidity.
 

Similar threads

Top