Rumours... any truth?

Discussion in 'Shooting, Hunting and Fishing' started by stoatman, Nov 6, 2009.

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  1. I have just heard the rumour that the government wishes to force through devolution of firearms laws to the Scottish parliament before they are ousted next year, which would almost inevitably result in an attempt at air-gun licensing and extra controls on stalkers.

    The rumour goes further to suggest that airgun controls would then be spread south of the border following their immediate "success".

    Anyone else heard this rumour, and if true, could it be achieved in the time remaining?
     
  2. I have also heard a rumour that the Tories plan a "Firearms (Reform) Act" for their first 100 days in power that will reverse some of the worst nonsense of recent years. As they were architects of a great deal of it I'm not holding my breath.

    I was asked to write up the principal requirements to the MP responsible though so who knows?
     
  3. Whose, the Tories or ours?
     
  4. Ours.

    It was some of the basics that they could just get done, not all the big items.

    The response to the 2004 consultation is here:


    Whether this will be looked at I have no idea. Like I say, I'm not holding my breath.
     
  5. Nice work EX_STAB

    Intrigued what the source of this rumour was or who the MP was, but of course you will want to keep your cards hidden.
     
  6. That was an interesting read, well thought out, logical, could be beneficial to shooters of both camps.

    Therefore of course whoever's desk it lands on will duly consign it to the bin.
     
  7. A bit abour Regulatory reform orders

    http://www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_committees/regulatory_reform_committee/regulatory_reform_orders.cfm

    The Act

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/pdf/ukpga_20060051_en.pdf

    What the Guardian has to say about the act.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycentral/2008/dec/16/legislative-and-regulatory-reform-act-2006

    Replaces the powers granted in the Regulatory Reform Act 2001 to make Regulatory Reform Orders. RROs are a legislative vehicle for amending primary legislation by ministerial order, without the need for parliamentary debate or the creation of new primary legislation (an act of parliament).
     
  8. So a Minister could ammend an act but not repeal it.

    The plans for the hunting with dogs act is to try for a repeal. This will entail a back bencher submitting a private members bill which will be open for a free vote.

    ACPO were considering asking for a RRO which would have included

    http://www.dorset.police.uk/pdf/FELWG_Minutes_13%20May2009.pdf

    5.5 e) Proposal for reforms to firearms legislation using

    Regulatory Reform Order

    Members considered the areas put forward as being suitable for reform and agreed them all except the one proposing amendment to section 44 of the Firearms Act to allow appeals against conditions specified by a Chief Officer of Police.

    FELWG sees this as being very much tied in with a provision to suspend certificates which was rejected by practitioners.

    Without that balance, FELWG feels both must be withdrawn to prevent overall failure of the RRO.

    It was also noted that the second one as listed should read

    “amend section 5(1)(ab) of the Firearms Act to also except calibres less that .22 rim fire from prohibition.”

    The Chair will now prepare a proposal for the Home Office to also include an indication of the order of priority.

    It was withdrawn but does it look like there was a proposal to allow pistols under .22rimfire
     
  9. That is the part of the 1988 Act that put Self-Loading Rifles, other than .22 Rimfire, into Section 5. I suspect that idea is to address the anomaly that because of the way the Act is worded, .22 Rimfire SLRs are Section 1 but .17 SLRs are Section 5.
     
  10. No section 5 (1) a and b refers to pistols.

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts1997/pdf/ukpga_19970064_en.pdf

    In paragraph (aba) of section 5(1) of the [1968 c. 27.] Firearms Act 1968 (which describes a category of prohibited weapons consisting of all firearms less than 30 cm. in barrel length or 60 cm. in overall length, other than specified kinds of firearm) the words “a small-calibre pistol” shall cease to have effect.

    Theres some nice pistols that use the 17M2 round, same size as a 22lr round but necked down to 17.

    But ACPO took that bit off the RRO, shame.

    Just had another look, you could be right.


    Prohibited weapons and ammunition .(1)
    Section 5 of the [1968 c. 27.] Firearms Act 1968 (in this Act referred to as “the principal Act”) shall have effect with the following amendments the purpose of which is to extend the class of prohibited weapons and ammunition, that is to say weapons and ammunition the possession, purchase, acquisition, manufacture, sale or transfer of which requires the authority of the Secretary of State. .
    (2)
    For paragraph (a) of subsection (1) there shall be substituted— .
    “(a)
    any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger; .
    (ab)
    any self-loading or pump-action rifle other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges; .
    (ac)
    any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or (excluding any detachable, folding, retractable or other movable butt-stock) is less than 40 inches in length overall; .
    (ad)
    any smooth-bore revolver gun other than one which is chambered for 9mm. rim-fire cartridges or loaded at the muzzle end of each chamber; .
    (ae)
    any rocket launcher, or any mortar, for projecting a stabilised missile, other than a launcher or mortar designed for line-throwing or pyrotechnic purposes or as signalling apparatus;”.
     
  11. Stoatman, what extra stalking controls have been rumoured? Thankls Sanchauk
     
  12. The ones reported by BASC involved only locally licensed, trained persons being allowed to engage in stalking, in practice the rules would prohibit visiting recreational stalkers.

    http://www.basc.org.uk/en/media/key_issues.cfm/cid/6C6AE3E3-EAC2-4C60-8BC2779C631C16A0
     
  13. Excellent thread,
     
  14. If this happens it will, yet again allow the so called Scottish Parliament (mickey mouse one that is) try to lead the way and royally **** up legislation for purely gathering a few votes from the 'anti shooting lobby'.

    As an example although not solely firearms but shooting related, the Scottish government managed to obtain a total tail docking ban a couple years ago north of the border without exemption, although I thought the BASC was trying to have this reversed for working dogs as it is south of the border.

    That irritating snivelling little individual Alex Salmond wants to spend more time in his constituency (which has a fair amount of shooters) than gobbing off about things he knows nothing about. He was on local radio the other month talking about airgun bans/licensing etc even though everyone knows it would be nigh on impossible.

    The mind boggles. I hope for the sake of shooting sports/wildlife management and land owners this doesn't go ahead.
     
  15. Methinks happy alec would, if you pardon the pun, be shooting himself in the hoof. The SNP have quite a lot of support in the rural areas, the very areas that would suffer the most should it become difficult for visiting sportsmen to stalk. The SNP will meddle with this one at their peril.