Rugby Union

Fang_Farrier

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Regression or Progression?
Days of jackalling may be numbered but would rugby be any safer? | Rugby union | The Guardian
Personally I like the idea of returning to a real rucking system, well officialled.
It would shift the advantage even more towards the attacking team, and I really can't see how it would tie more forwards in. If the defending team can't compete for the ball, they might as well just fan out in a defensive wall. Taking the competition out of the ruck is just one more step towards Rugby League.
 

Auld-Yin

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It would shift the advantage even more towards the attacking team, and I really can't see how it would tie more forwards in. If the defending team can't compete for the ball, they might as well just fan out in a defensive wall. Taking the competition out of the ruck is just one more step towards Rugby League.
This is not taking the competition out of the ruck. If the opposition pull out then the attacking team push through, the ruck would need to be defended. Now where I see most opposition from is when someone is on the floor and 'rigorous' rucking takes place on his body! But again that is where the officials come in to sort this out.
 
This is not taking the competition out of the ruck. If the opposition pull out then the attacking team push through, the ruck would need to be defended. Now where I see most opposition from is when someone is on the floor and 'rigorous' rucking takes place on his body! But again that is where the officials come in to sort this out.
I disagree. The defending team can’t compete for the ball on the floor, and the attacking team can power through all they like, they are just putting themselves offside.
 

Auld-Yin

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I disagree. The defending team can’t compete for the ball on the floor, and the attacking team can power through all they like, they are just putting themselves offside.
Explain yourself here please. To my mind the whole point of a ruck is for two sides to compete for the ball, therefore both sides, if they want to win it must push the other side off the ball. This new take on the ruck is to encourage going back to this form of play and stop the bull-charge of someone charging in to the ruck in a potentially dangerous way.

The sight of half a ton of beef getting up speed just to hit the scrum as hard as possible can't be a good way to continue playing.
 
Explain yourself here please. To my mind the whole point of a ruck is for two sides to compete for the ball, therefore both sides, if they want to win it must push the other side off the ball. This new take on the ruck is to encourage going back to this form of play and stop the bull-charge of someone charging in to the ruck in a potentially dangerous way.

The sight of half a ton of beef getting up speed just to hit the scrum as hard as possible can't be a good way to continue playing.
At a tackle, the defending team currently may compete for the ball - the first arriving player can attempt to pickup the ball as long as he remains on his feet, so in most cases both the attacking and defending teams will commit players to the ruck. For the defending team, there is at least the opportunity to slow down the attacking team’s ball.
Under the new proposal, this option appears to have been removed. The defending team has the following options.
1. Commit players in attempt to push back the attacking forwards to try to win or slow down the ball.
2. Commit only one or two players, as the ball winning opportunity will be fleeting to say the least.
3. Not commit to the ruck at all.
Option 1 will only give a successful outcome if the defending team has superiority in numbers and/or size, so most times, why bother?
Options 2 and 3 leave defending players available.

The attacking team options are driven by the necessity to secure (quick) ball. They must commit immediately to the ruck, but only to secure ball. If the defending team doesn’t commit or only lightly commits, what can they do? The whole pack driving through the ruck provides no benefit, as they now have up to 8 players on the wrong side of the ball, who will be in an offside position as soon as the ruck ends. This doesn’t disturb the defending team as only a small number are committed to the ruck and now numerically overmatch the attack.
The logical conclusion is that competition at the ruck will, in most cases, end, and one of the distinctive features of Rugby Union - competition at the breakdown - will largely vanish.
 
At a tackle, the defending team currently may compete for the ball - the first arriving player can attempt to pickup the ball as long as he remains on his feet, so in most cases both the attacking and defending teams will commit players to the ruck. For the defending team, there is at least the opportunity to slow down the attacking team’s ball.
Under the new proposal, this option appears to have been removed. The defending team has the following options.
1. Commit players in attempt to push back the attacking forwards to try to win or slow down the ball.
2. Commit only one or two players, as the ball winning opportunity will be fleeting to say the least.
3. Not commit to the ruck at all.
Option 1 will only give a successful outcome if the defending team has superiority in numbers and/or size, so most times, why bother?
Options 2 and 3 leave defending players available.

The attacking team options are driven by the necessity to secure (quick) ball. They must commit immediately to the ruck, but only to secure ball. If the defending team doesn’t commit or only lightly commits, what can they do? The whole pack driving through the ruck provides no benefit, as they now have up to 8 players on the wrong side of the ball, who will be in an offside position as soon as the ruck ends. This doesn’t disturb the defending team as only a small number are committed to the ruck and now numerically overmatch the attack.
The logical conclusion is that competition at the ruck will, in most cases, end, and one of the distinctive features of Rugby Union - competition at the breakdown - will largely vanish.
At which point, I will start watching tennis as it will be more of a contact sport!

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What used to happen if you were caught on the wrong side!
 
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