RTC or not

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by Kitmarlowe, Dec 8, 2008.

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  1. My CO made an interesting annoucement regarding our presence at our RTC, to wit we would no longer be sending new bodies to RTC for the 10 weekends course. Instead we would be involved in the running of 3 or 4 2 weeks phase 1 a year. the logic behind this is a) The CO was not impressed by our RTC b) He was not impressed that we "seemed" to provide the bulk of the instructors present at the RTC whilst some units provided no instructors at all and C) the drop out rate is too high, with the CO quoting a pass out rate down to at 20% against the 90% passout rate on the 2 week cadre.

    I'm aware of the ongoing drama with instructors at RTC's but I wan't aware that the drop out rate was so high...thoughts, comments, etc??
  2. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator


    I have no idea about RTCs, but I hope your CO has looked into his manpower bill for this change.

    You will still need recruit training teams within your Coys to keep the link with the recruits waiting for training.

    You will also need a team of PTIs, medics, CBRN, BCDT, MAPRIC, SAA etc, etc, etc who have also all done the required train the trainer packages. Instead of everyone pooling their quals at an RTC, you need to have them all in house.

    Good luck!
  3. I'd hope that he's thought this all through, but as it seems that the RTC is validating the course then someone has done the number crunching....I did gather that it's not just for us, but open across the same pool who use our RTC...
  4. Sixty

    Sixty LE Moderator Book Reviewer
    1. ARRSE Cyclists and Triathletes

    I recall (which should be an indicator of the relability of the following given the state of my memory!) that the 20% pass rate was taken across everyone who had ever expressed an interest in the TA whether they took it further or not and subsequently passed out.
  5. Is he chasing pass out numbers or long term bods? Most of the guys from a 2 week Phase 1 cadre last summer left anyway after or before CIC. So if they haven't got the sticking power to last a few months to do a few weekends what's the point.
  6. Can't wait till BravoBravo get hold of this one.
  7. Kitmarlowe
    I presume you are infantry as you refer to the 10 w/e phase 1. 3 Pwrr opted out of the RTC system for a short period but were reigned back in to the RTC system for some reason. Running internal cadres will put immense strain upon the unit for instructors as Duke points out.
  8. Have I understood this right that your going to ask your recruits to do a 2 week phase 1 camp followed by 2 futher weeks at CIC or CMSR?

    Your unit fully manned by the unemployed then?

    Or maybe I'm being a mong!
  9. A number of Infantry we allowed by Land to run internal courses validated by the RTC's on a purely temporary basis due to lack of training staff in the RTC's. From the grapevine LAND are now reigning these units back into sending crows to the RTC's under a one size fits all approach to recruiting. Right or wrong (wrongly in most TA units opinion) they want a common recruit training scenario the same as regular recruits. The only exemption has always been SF and 4 Para who even in the regular Army train there own guys under there own staff. As has been stated on so many previous posts if units aren't happy with the situation, then they should send staff to the RTC's to look after and train their blokes. The policy is here to stay gents, units will moan but there are further changes ahead and it will only be a matter of time until units will not see recruits full stop, until they are trained soldiers and 'Posted' to a Regt or Bn
  10. I can see the potential benefits in such an approach; but the devil as always is in the detail. The feedback I get is that we lose recruits under the current system as they feel lost in a nameless, faceless national bureaucracy where no-one gives a sh!t whether they turn up or not, where dates change at short notice, where expectations (kit lists, standards) vary seemingly at random, where the recruit sees no clear path to what they joined the TA to do, ie start attending their chosen unit.

    Now, we do what we can to counter this by involving them as much as we can, despite the bureaucracy that has the RCO ringing Bn for guidance as to what recruits can do on the range on a Saturday - and getting different answers for each of them.

    However, should we remove unit involvement without a drastic overhaul of the entire system then we'll lose more recruits. Note that I'm not having a pop at what is taught or who teaches it, that's not the problem. It's the lack of co-ordination at higher level that renders the current recruit experience such a lottery. I confidently expect the discussion over this element to degenerate into a list of "Well, they should have done this ..." "No you, should have done that ..." And that is exactly my point, that sort of conversation is only possible where an admin hole exists.

    There's also the need to make sure that the system is run for the TA rather than for the regs, ie proper notice of weekends and camps so people can get time off work.
  11. On top of specialist military qualifications everyone involved in recruits should hold the civilian certificates for level 1 education.

    As of September 2007, new teachers in the lifelong learning sector in England have to
    gain a professional status appropriate to their job role.
    There are now two levels of teacher
    Associate Teacher – ATLS (Associate Teacher Learning & Skills)– A person with fewer
    responsibilities that someone in a full teaching role; they do not need to demonstrate a full
    understanding of curriculum development
    Full teacher - QTLS (Qualified Teacher Learning & Skills)– Individual with responsibility
    for curriculum development and teaching skills requires this level of qualifications.
    There are three levels of award to progress towards QTLS
    • PTLLS - Preparing to Teach in the Lifelong Learning Sector – Threshold Award
    • CTLLS - Certificate in Teaching in the Lifelong Learning Sector - ATLS
    • DTLLS - Diploma in Teaching in the Lifelong Learning Sector - QTLS
  12. I concur and know most of the RTC Specialist wings are course mapping and working towards accreditation for all RTC instructors. Yet another reason for the policy of central recruiting.
  13. Strange

    Good points and one of the major problems of the RTC set up is that they are Brigade funded and there is a massive difference in funding and support provided by each Brigade HQ dependent on the HQ priorities. Staffing is another major issue that varies from RTC to RTC. If the Army want central recruiting I'm afraid somebody needs to get a grip on the admin, funding, real estate and manning issues and apply it globally and uniformly across the board rather than the piecemeal 'On the Cheap' version of the current situation.
  14. I concur (thats like agreeing - but posher!)

    Kit, which Bde RTC covers you area?

    My Bn is trying to wrestle bits and pieces back under it's control. We don't understand why, a significant number of the instructors at the RTC are the same capbadge, so effectively the Bn is still training it's own, if it's not happy with the quality being turned out then they need to send more blokes to cover the short falls (which are big and getting bigger (mostly due to a set of very sad and unfortunate circumstances)).
    We have had visits from the majority of CO's in the Bde and they are all very happy with the results (and not having to commit anywhere near as many resources and manpower as previous!), the glaring exception is the Infantry, who other than the odd passing WO2 and some guest instructor's, haven't visited in any formal capacity to see the standard of training taking place. It feels sometimes that they forget the pressures placed on the RTC, not just in terms of resources, finance, real estate and staffing, but also in turning out high quantities of trained soldiers. I would say 80% drop out rate is balls unless your RTC is particularly bad (doubtful), and rather a figure he's made up, to back up his claims. I would suggest the biggest wastage comes after the recruit has finished at the RTC and are left in the hands of the Regualr training team, or left wallowing because they couldn't get on a course, and have to spend months doing nothing and end up having to revalidate and refresh at the RTC.
    To me it feels like there's a gulf in the level we are expected to turn out, and the level they are expected to be at when they rock up at ATR or CIC.
  15. We've only ever done on the cheap! bastard child of the RTC thats us, we've been doing it for so long with so little, we dont even have a permenant office at the moment, moving out of the previous 3 lastminute.com, let alone classrooms.

    As to re validating.... the certificate is valid for 8 weeks only after leaving RTC to ATR/CIC so lots of refresher w/es