Royal Marines Gucci Rebrand

This thread makes you wonder why the Chinese think they can do certain things. :)
As things stand, not only are they running rings round us, but we allow them to do it, and our system of democracy makes life much easier for them to ‘get’ from the UK than visa versa.

Security in the U.K. is very poor imho, and with a bit of cunning, and lots of money thrown at a problem our adversaries are doing just fine.

I understand lots of people think we keep secrets well, or have good security measures in place, but seeing copied info being made into real products in China might suggest otherwise.
Don't disagree with that. Whenever I think crypto is uncrackable, my thoughts wander to Enigma which was also deemed inpenetrable at the time. The maths for unravelling crypto assume perfect entropy, that the key you want will be the last possibility in the theoretical sequence and that the 'cracker' is starting from a zero position. Risky assumptions if you ask me.

On the other hand, AES 128 alone is extremely difficult if the unpredictable sample is taken correctly, is truly unpredictable and non-cyclical..
 

Mr_Relaxed

War Hero
I've lost count of the number of times I've seen "eVil EnEMy pwns our TyPHoons n sHiPz beCoZ lamer wiNDoZE!! Eleventy!!!" assertions. Normally about embedded systems where it's impossible to change the code without physical access to the device, because guess what? Engineers have worried about this kind of thing for decades (I remember one initial requirement on a military project that required us to wipe all software in the event of the ejector seat firing. Fortunately, saner heads prevailed before we got too far into implementation...)

And it's not just the Army; remember the blind insistence that any issues with a post Brexit NI border, would disappear with the application of Magic IT, because after all: It Can't Be That Hard, Can It? (Hint: Yes, it can). Meanwhile, industry buzzword bingo normally involves the words "Cloud" and "Blockchain", typically uttered by a sales type with a degree in English Literature or Media Studies.

There are plenty of routes for computing to address military C3I, that just aren't taken - because the typical response is "how do we automate an existing process", rather than "how do we rebuild a process to use what we've learned from seventy years of computer science"...
The one that I have seen lately has been "how do we tweak the package we are buying so that we don't have to review our process but we don't want it to cost any more?"

When really you should be thinking about why you are still doing a process that you've been doing for the past 5 years with no real thought as to why you are doing it. "But that's what we've always done!"

Yes but lockdown and furlough is going to upset a few people, when you realise that all they're doing is pushing the same set of data between half a dozen people for no real purpose.

Edit to add:
And having caught up on some of the later posts, probably what goes on in some HQ's based on some of the posts I read on this site. My TA life saw me in 1 Div HQ once - rather a surprise to find one box body dedicated to photocopying.
 
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Slime

LE
That's debatable.
Fire away :)
What secrets do you have in mind that the U.K. has gained from China?
Can you name any major tech companies or advances that the U.K. or U.K. interests have been able to walk into China and buy from under the nose of the Chinese government?

We arent playing with level rules, and the Chinese are pouring way more cash into the subject than the UK.

We need to bear in mind that there are far more Chinese companies, groups or organisations working their way into the countries of the world right now than UK equivalents. While we see the results of Chinese commercial and military information theft, the Chinese are also happy to just buy want that they want.

Sadly, most of us here live in a country that will/would allow a fairly hostile communist country with deplorable human rights issues to build a nuclear power station for us. I’m not seeing too many UK companies given such a huge stake in China.

ETA.
Just look at the MSM news today, almost all channels are carrying the story that the Olympian Bianca Williams was stopped by the police.
After her and her partner refused to cooperate with police they are now calling the police racist, and are calling for the Met commissioner to resign.

Contrast that with the rules in China where such an outburst may have dire consequences........Or Imagine Bianca Williams (a ‘me me me character’ imho) being told by the government ‘that you must work for the interest of the government if asked.
 
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Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Whenever I think crypto is uncrackable, my thoughts wander to Enigma which was also deemed inpenetrable at the time.
That's true, but it's different this time. In WW2, a slightly odd English bloke basically invented computing (I'm simplifying this) to solve the problem. This time round we know that there's a way that all our encryption can be beaten, we just aren't able to do it. That may happen in the next few years or it may never happen, but the reality of modern technological advances mean that this time a new way of doing it is extremely unlikely to be discovered by a lone Cambridge graduate in a shed.

Where encryption does become vulnerable to that kind of inventive mind is in side-channel attacks, which look to find different ways of either breaking the encryption or accessing the information. Some of those are simple, like @stacker1's example of looking for the post-it under the keyboard; others are more technical, such as reading the binary code passing through a server based on the LED blinking.
 

Slime

LE
That's true, but it's different this time. In WW2, a slightly odd English bloke basically invented computing (I'm simplifying this) to solve the problem. This time round we know that there's a way that all our encryption can be beaten, we just aren't able to do it. That may happen in the next few years or it may never happen, but the reality of modern technological advances mean that this time a new way of doing it is extremely unlikely to be discovered by a lone Cambridge graduate in a shed.

Where encryption does become vulnerable to that kind of inventive mind is in side-channel attacks, which look to find different ways of either breaking the encryption or accessing the information. Some of those are simple, like @stacker1's example of looking for the post-it under the keyboard; others are more technical, such as reading the binary code passing through a server based on the LED blinking.
For another WW2 example, think of just how quickly Stalin was given updates on the Manhattan project.

There are far more ways than one to skin a cat.
Each decade since WW2 has seen the media surprised at how much info has been has from one side to another, be that East to West or West to East.
 
We arent playing with level rules, and the Chinese are pouring way more cash into the subject than the UK.
I'll wager they aren't throwing £250 at a pair of strides...
 

Slime

LE
I'll wager they aren't throwing £250 at a pair of strides...
That’s an interesting subject. Ignoring the fact that we aren't talking about the kind of people who wear uniforms, the Chinese have very deep pockets when it suits them imho.

As for Crye kit, I have no idea if any Chinese forces wear them, but do know some Brit stuff comes from China.
 
That's true, but it's different this time. In WW2, a slightly odd English bloke basically invented computing (I'm simplifying this) to solve the problem. This time round we know that there's a way that all our encryption can , be beaten, we just aren't able to do it. That may happen in the next few years or it may never happen, but the reality of modern technological advances mean that this time a new way of doing it is extremely unlikely to be discovered by a lone Cambridge graduate in a shed.

Where encryption does become vulnerable to that kind of inventive mind is in side-channel attacks, which look to find different ways of either breaking the encryption or accessing the information. Some of those are simple, like @stacker1's example of looking for the post-it under the keyboard; others are more technical, such as reading the binary code passing through a server based on the LED blinking.
I am really, really tempted to add something but won't, because even though it is an old technique it may be current.
 

A2_Matelot

LE
Book Reviewer
Fire away :)
What secrets do you have in mind that the U.K. has gained from China?
Can you name any major tech companies or advances that the U.K. or U.K. interests have been able to walk into China and buy from under the nose of the Chinese government?

We arent playing with level rules, and the Chinese are pouring way more cash into the subject than the UK.

We need to bear in mind that there are far more Chinese companies, groups or organisations working their way into the countries of the world right now than UK equivalents. While we see the results of Chinese commercial and military information theft, the Chinese are also happy to just buy want that they want.

Sadly, most of us here live in a country that will/would allow a fairly hostile communist country with deplorable human rights issues to build a nuclear power station for us. I’m not seeing too many UK companies given such a huge stake in China.

ETA.
Just look at the MSM news today, almost all channels are carrying the story that the Olympian Bianca Williams was stopped by the police.
After her and her partner refused to cooperate with police they are now calling the police racist, and are calling for the Met commissioner to resign.

Contrast that with the rules in China where such an outburst may have dire consequences........Or Imagine Bianca Williams (a ‘me me me character’ imho) being told by the government ‘that you must work for the interest of the government if asked.
China has more to gain from the West, currently, which is why they resort to so much espionage. But it would be niave to think the West isn't also playing a similar game.

They've been brazen and played a relatively open hand to try to leverage a position where they cannot be challenged and work to their own agenda but even after their misjudging of "Kung flu" the US aren't backing down and hence I suspect the IndoPacific region will become the new point of focus even for the UK as more nations press back again China.

Their BRI is remarkable, ingenious, but can it last.

I don't disagree they're a force to be reckoned with but they have become so overt there will be reset.
 

Bob65

War Hero
the big problem was finding any of the Grown-Up Bankers actually willing to read it, far less sign off on it. Massive sloping shoulders all around, and a hearty dose of "it's all blinky-lights techie stuff, I don't bother with minor details like that".
An aside but this is a problem I've always had with change management as a concept. It's completely backwards. It should go something like this: Here's the plan. It's going ahead on Monday with your name on it. You have until Friday to propose any modifications. It would certainly make some people earn those hitherto undeserved salaries...
 

Slime

LE
China has more to gain from the West, currently, which is why they resort to so much espionage. But it would be niave to think the West isn't also playing a similar game.

They've been brazen and played a relatively open hand to try to leverage a position where they cannot be challenged and work to their own agenda but even after their misjudging of "Kung flu" the US aren't backing down and hence I suspect the IndoPacific region will become the new point of focus even for the UK as more nations press back again China.

Their BRI is remarkable, ingenious, but can it last.

I don't disagree they're a force to be reckoned with but they have become so overt there will be reset.
We, (well, not me in any shape or form) are clearly up to sneaky things too, as we should be.

But I can’t ignore just how much easier things are for China than the UK.

In a funny way the last few years, and this year in particular have highlighted some differences.

When NA was used in Salisbury we saw the leader of the opposition say he would rather trust Russia than the U.K. police or SIS. Imho that kind of attitude shouldn’t exist in a mainstream U.K. party. A similar anti China attitude wouldn’t have happened in China........Even if it wasnt a one party state.

During the Brexit saga we saw or heard Steve Bray everyday trying to out shout MSM presenters at Westminster. It goes without saying that a Steve Blay in China could up up as dog food.

We have seen Chinese expansion into Africa, yet meanwhile in the UK we have a growing bunch of people saying Brits are colonial racists.........even while they are still in the UK.

For those who know Bristol, you may be aware of the tower block near the new court that is luxury accommodation for overseas Chinese students.

The wealthy Chinese students who live there can wander around the City doing whatever they want whenever they want.........it’s a free country after all.

I get the impression British students in a Chinese Uni might not get the same freedom of movement, unlimited internet access or freedom to go wherever they want.

While I’d expect the vast majority of students at the above tower block to simply be spoilt rich kids, some of them are part of groundbreaking work at Bristol uni.

On the other hand, the Chinese can perhaps just see easy targets, the famous ‘MG deal’ where the Brit MG cars team got drunk while the Chinese team didn’t is a good example. :)
 
An aside but this is a problem I've always had with change management as a concept. It's completely backwards. It should go something like this: Here's the plan. It's going ahead on Monday with your name on it. You have until Friday to propose any modifications. It would certainly make some people earn those hitherto undeserved salaries...
That kind of "macho management" / "my way or the highway" attitudes were exactly what got said bank into trouble. Because guess what? By the time there's any fallout, the ruthless careerists whose names go on those kinds of statements, are generally long gone from that bank to a shiny promotion in another bank...
 
That kind of "macho management" / "my way or the highway" attitudes were exactly what got said bank into trouble. Because guess what? By the time there's any fallout, the ruthless careerists whose names go on those kinds of statements, are generally long gone from that bank to a shiny promotion in another bank...
That didn't work for 'Fred the Shred' though.
 
I understand lots of people think we keep secrets well, or have good security measures in place, but seeing copied info being made into real products in China might suggest otherwise.
You're making lots of assertions about cryptography and engineering that don't quite stack up. So, how about an example of a British-designed, British-built thing that's being made in China as a "real product"? It has to be suitably complex, and not just a straight lift of the production drawings from one Chinese production line to the next.

Yes, I'm aware that they've had a fun attitude to Intellectual Property and industrial espionage, for years now. Like a lot of other nations. So what? They aren't superheroes.
 
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That didn't work for 'Fred the Shred' though.
Really? Because he's still got that rather large house, hefty pension, and a big pile of money. Yup, I'm sure he's wiping the tears from his eyes with £20 notes as you type.

He's a sociopath. He doesn't care what you think - he's rich, he got away with it.
 
Where encryption does become vulnerable to that kind of inventive mind is in side-channel attacks, which look to find different ways of either breaking the encryption or accessing the information.
Then you'll love this seven-year-old story... essentially, someone was building wifi snoopers into kettles and "other household appliances".

Or this more recent story; try looking up the term USBHarpoon -you'll never again trust a USB cable you didn't buy yourself. Computing is now small / low power enough, that you can build quite a sophisticated device into a cable connector, and power it from the cable itself.
 
f/whenever we have swingeing cuts, you can lay odds that it will be under a Tory government. Wilson east of Suez is the exception that proves the rule
Wilson introduced big Defence cuts in the 1974 Defence Review. The Army made 18,000 soldiers redundant. 16 Parachute Brigade was disbanded. Bases in Singapore, Malta, Gan, Masirah and Salalah closed. Ark Royal scrapped. Belfast and Britania Transport aircraft disposed of.
 
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