Royal Marines Gucci Rebrand

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
No, I’m not confusing terms.
I had rather guessed as much. I think you don't really understand the military application of cyber.

Quad super computers either aren't a thing or aren't very prominent. Quad core supercomputers are, but so what? They aren't magic - it's just extra computing power.

Encryption as a term is meaningless, and your statement that 'the fastest recorded breaking of encryption is 200s' is innacurate. Encryption comes in lots of forms, some popular forms of which (eg AES) are theoretically unbreakable on current computing power assumptions but could be cracked in future. They can be vulnerable to side-channel attacks, but that's not what you're talking about.

In your scenario, how are you getting the data from the enemy system and what's your mechanism to continue to get that data? How is that volume of data being egressed from the battlefield back to a site with a supercomputer (Cheltenham, presumably)? It's not just a computing power problem.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
When I think of China‘s aim to eventually have data on every human alive on the planet I can think of some areas of the U.K. where they would think ‘someone else had got there first’ and wrecked the town!
I was thinking of Hinckley Point, too.
 

Slime

LE
I had rather guessed as much. I think you don't really understand the military application of cyber.

Quad super computers either aren't a thing or aren't very prominent. Quad core supercomputers are, but so what? They aren't magic - it's just extra computing power.

Encryption as a term is meaningless, and your statement that 'the fastest recorded breaking of encryption is 200s' is innacurate. Encryption comes in lots of forms, some popular forms of which (eg AES) are theoretically unbreakable on current computing power assumptions but could be cracked in future. They can be vulnerable to side-channel attacks, but that's not what you're talking about.

In your scenario, how are you getting the data from the enemy system and what's your mechanism to continue to get that data? How is that volume of data being egressed from the battlefield back to a site with a supercomputer (Cheltenham, presumably)? It's not just a computing power problem.
Oh well, I’m clearly not as smart as you, we might have to agree to disagree. :)
Perhaps if you had been following what I’ve been following the ‘200 seconds’ would have made immediate sense to you, and you would know what it referred to, and how long the previous estimate was. :)
 
Go even simpler and more stark.

Back in WWII, you might have mounted round-the-clock bombing raids employing many hundreds of aircraft and endangering many thousands of lives to knock out the power stations for an industrial region.

Now, you might achieve the same by squirting a few lines of code down a fibre cable.
Stuxnet, out!!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

Bob65

War Hero
You would be able to read any if their encrypted or coded message within 200 seconds (at current rates).
you would know every enemy combatant, their personal info, and thus where each of those combatants were.......so whether they were mobilising in advance.
You could know the location of any stores or ammunition
Where do you get that figure of 200 seconds? It seems wildly optimistic to me


Also consider



in particular, using old methods to evade Blue's sophisticated electronic surveillance network. Van Riper used motorcycle messengers to transmit orders to front-line troops and World-War-II-style light signals to launch airplanes without radio communications.

You can cyber or SIGINT all you like, but your enemy may simply choose not to play that game. That is the real danger I am highlighting.
 

Slime

LE
Where do you get that figure of 200 seconds? It seems wildly optimistic to me


Also consider


You can cyber or SIGINT all you like, but your enemy may simply choose not to play that game. That is the real danger I am highlighting.
Very true. If the opposition don’t use codes, encryption, internet, mobile phones, credit or debit cars etc then you can’t affect any of those pre battle, but then all of the major players do use them.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
(Bloke in glasses at back of room tentatively chips in with pertinent question...)

Is cyber just yet another excuse to not spend money where it's needed? *





*This question comes to you from the 'perhaps we need both' school of thinking.
 

Slime

LE
(Bloke in glasses at back of room tentatively chips in with pertinent question...)

Is cyber just yet another excuse to not spend money where it's needed? *





*This question comes to you from the 'perhaps we need both' school of thinking.
A problem we see in the U.K. is the other chap in glasses who says “we don’t have the cash for either option, let alone both” :)

Even if we compare the R and D budget of China on its own and compare that to the combined budgets of the whole of NATO the scales are tipped very much one way imho.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
A problem we see in the U.K. is the other chap in glasses who says “we don’t have the cash for either option, let alone both” :)

Even if we compare the R and D budget of China on its own and compare that to the combined budgets of the whole of NATO the scales are tipped very much one way imho.
I guess that's a 'yes', then.

But then I suppose another question is 'define can't afford'.

Some things you simply have to afford.
 

Slime

LE
I guess that's a 'yes', then.

But then I suppose another question is 'define can't afford'.

Some things you simply have to afford.
Not being serious, but I can imagine someone telling the MOD that China has put 50 trillion into R and D, and the MOD response would be “Do we still have any of the old kit from Bureau West in storage’ ;)
 

Cromarty

Old-Salt
Where do you get that figure of 200 seconds? It seems wildly optimistic to me


Also consider



in particular, using old methods to evade Blue's sophisticated electronic surveillance network. Van Riper used motorcycle messengers to transmit orders to front-line troops and World-War-II-style light signals to launch airplanes without radio communications.

You can cyber or SIGINT all you like, but your enemy may simply choose not to play that game. That is the real danger I am highlighting.
So, if I'm understanding this right, you could crack that code first try. Doesn't sound too bad...... well it's your fault, i tried understanding what you posted and you broke my brain!
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Not being serious, but I can imagine someone telling the MOD that China has put 50 trillion into R and D, and the MOD response would be “Do we still have any of the old kit from Bureau West in storage’ ;)
But on that basis, you might as well not even bother.
 

arcticfox042

War Hero
If you believe the Times article today, Cummings is about to take a blow touch to defence. Including the following:

“The Royal Marines commando brigade would be disbanded, losing its artillery, engineers and landing craft. Royal Navy minesweepers would also face the axe“

I hope the Gucci kit order comes with the caveat; can be returned to supplier if not worn!

Also: C130’s and Pumas to go. Good job A400s have been cleared for Para drops (French versions).
Sounds like they are going to axe all the pongo addons .... sad day....
 
Have a quick look online.
I didn't mention ‘core’, but have a look around. The current fastest published breaking of encryption is 200 seconds.
I have a faster method, walk into office, look for yellow post it note with username and password, if not immediately visible then look under the keyboard, 20 seconds max.
 

Slime

LE
But on that basis, you might as well not even bother.
Hmmm, that’s very close to how the MOD operate in some areas isn’t it?
I’m not saying that’s good in any way.

ARRSE seems to have quite a few threads talking about the UK having kit for ’a war’ or kit that is too old to be useful against a peer enemy.

Even if the U.K. put as much cash into cyber as some of our opponents we wouldn’t do as well (imho) as our style of democracy and freedom of movement and travel make collection from us quite easy.
As a generalisation I’d suggest it’s much easier for a chinese backed group to take legal control of a U.K. company than visa versa. Cyber can be perfectly legal, and out in the open as well as underhand.

As we speak there is a thread bemoaning Royal Signal kit and proficiency in using it.
NATO as a whole recently have found some environments tricky recently in the Baltics due to Russian interference. It seems that some former skills have been lost, and maybe money has been lacking in buying the latest kit..............Or, insuring the latest kit is as good as others have.

ETA.
Apologies for thread drift.
 
Not a bad offer. Good deposit for a house for a young bloke and fours years of job security.
While its good for the blokes, like the bonus they offer the army, you end up having people would dont want to be there but are just hanging around for the cash payout.

Also if its anything like Army bonus, the government take almost a third back in NI and income tax, for the booties who do well with promotion and are away a lot in their bonus year, some of the 20K will be taxed at 40% instead of 20%. Its better than a kick in balls but it drifts away from headline figure.
 

Polyester

Old-Salt
While its good for the blokes, like the bonus they offer the army, you end up having people would dont want to be there but are just hanging around for the cash payout.

Also if its anything like Army bonus, the government take almost a third back in NI and income tax, for the booties who do well with promotion and are away a lot in their bonus year, some of the 20K will be taxed at 40% instead of 20%. Its better than a kick in balls but it drifts away from headline figure.
Yep. fair one.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Hmmm, that’s very close to how the MOD operate in some areas isn’t it?
I’m not saying that’s good in any way.

ARRSE seems to have quite a few threads talking about the UK having kit for ’a war’ or kit that is too old to be useful against a peer enemy.

Even if the U.K. put as much cash into cyber as some of our opponents we wouldn’t do as well (imho) as our style of democracy and freedom of movement and travel make collection from us quite easy.
As a generalisation I’d suggest it’s much easier for a chinese backed group to take legal control of a U.K. company than visa versa. Cyber can be perfectly legal, and out in the open as well as underhand.

As we speak there is a thread bemoaning Royal Signal kit and proficiency in using it.
NATO as a whole recently have found some environments tricky recently in the Baltics due to Russian interference. It seems that some former skills have been lost, and maybe money has been lacking in buying the latest kit..............Or, insuring the latest kit is as good as others have.

ETA.
Apologies for thread drift.
I don't think this is thread drift, although I would point out that one cyber thread has already been locked.

We need to sort our place in the world, and that means militarily as much as anything else. But, we also need to sort what we mean by 'militarily'. Increasingly, that includes an element of the electronic environment as much as door-kickers. It has for some time, in fact, and that needs to be recognised.
 

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