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Royal Marines Gucci Rebrand

I for one look at the Aussies' equipment plan's coherence and commitment and get very jealous indeed.

I think their cultural acceptance of the ability to say "you're talking bollux" to someone out loud helps derail daft ideas.
 
He’ll tell you that the F3 was a heap of junk flown by poseur Air Defenders, unlike the Jaguar, a real man’s aeroplane (on the days when it wasn’t thrust limited, anyway. There must have some days it wasn’t. I think.)
I blame the weight of the aircrew, I mean those huge watches must weigh at least 100kg.
 
I think their cultural acceptance of the ability to say "you're talking bollux" to someone out loud helps derail daft ideas.
Really? Have A look at their Tigre procurement, submarine procurement, for starters.
 
Really? Have A look at their Tigre procurement, submarine procurement, for starters.

I have, and it served to underline the fact that "bollux" should have been said more often.
 
I have, and it served to underline the fact that "bollux" should have been said more often.
Well they follow Our old tradition of seeing a decent platform, buy it then cram it full of shit that doesn’t work, similar to the Upholder class sold to the Canadians.
 
So with all that drivel, you still can't evidence your claim. Thanks,

You join the Military to do the exercises to go on tours. You use civilian support sensibly to make sure military do what military need to do and no more.

if you write the correct contracts and recruit the right people, you get the right service, it's not rocket science.

Apart from all the evidence I just gave you? Nothing like burying your head is there?

You dont join the military to get smashed with tours/exercises on the the basis some of your peers have been replaced with civilians. What an absolute **** excuse for ******* over juniors (And it is them that bear the brunt of extra graft), Guess what lads, in order to save some money you can go on exercise for the Nth time this year, because its what you joined up for.
Do you have any more cliches? Civvies pay thousands for this? If it aint raining it aint training?

You will never ever write a cheaper like for like contract for a civvie to replace a soldier, what would be the point for the civvie? He might as well join up and get paid more.
Im going to hazard a guess and suggest that it doesnt directly impact you so you dont care. Just as you sneered about jiff jobs, clearly you arent the sort who does them.
 
D

Deleted 3147

Guest
Apart from all the evidence I just gave you? Nothing like burying your head is there?

You dont join the military to get smashed with tours/exercises on the the basis some of your peers have been replaced with civilians. What an absolute **** excuse for ******* over juniors (And it is them that bear the brunt of extra graft), Guess what lads, in order to save some money you can go on exercise for the Nth time this year, because its what you joined up for.
Do you have any more cliches? Civvies pay thousands for this? If it aint raining it aint training?

You will never ever write a cheaper like for like contract for a civvie to replace a soldier, what would be the point for the civvie? He might as well join up and get paid more.
Im going to hazard a guess and suggest that it doesnt directly impact you so you dont care. Just as you sneered about jiff jobs, clearly you arent the sort who does them.

No, you've evidenced nothing. You've vented your spleen and the two are entirely different.

You said: " Im fairly certain that nearly every civvie replacement in the Army has led to more work for those serving and/or more cost to the military and/or less of a service." So, in your own time go on, I'm interested.

We have replaced uniformed personnel all over the RN. It's how you choose to make that transition and how you mange it that adds the value or doesn't. We've taken a lot of time over the TORs for our posts, and there were a lot of them, to understand what we want and what we will get.

The military - civilian transition does impact me as I run a big team where the balance is only going to go one way so that we can prioritise people to operational units, but I still need SQEP and service.. I'm not the kind of person who makes up "jiff jobs".
 
Yep, that got me over the line. Thank you.
De nada. Here's one for later....
.
gimp1.JPG
 
You do an armed stag on the gate as a civvie do you?

I didn't claim civvies were workshy retards although its interesting that you thought that.

My point was you cant make civvies do anything outside of their contract in the Army. Yet balloonheads like Jim30 tout how much cheaper it is to replace Pte Bloggs with Mr Bloggs because you dont have to pay civvies so much or give them subsidised housing. Then when you ask, who will be doing Pte Bloggs duties, tours, exercises, unpaid overtime, jiff jobs, emergency call out etc the answer seems to be everyone else can cover it.

Due to current policy we do not not operate personal weapons under card alpha. However a civvy is currently "stagging on" the gangway. And we are quite happily able to operate GPMGs, Mk44 minigun, 30mm guns and all sorts of other "military" kit. We do tours, exercises, get stuffed for stuff, call outs the works.

And I said that as you were giving the impression you don't think highly of civvies and I was rushed to reply as I actually had to work. I'm quite happy that I've seen good and bad on both sides of the fence.

Write better contracts then. I've already given you plenty of examples of civvies doing everything you are complaining they can't do......

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
 

Polyester

War Hero
well, hopefully, this time around, the SF Wokkas are off the peg jobbies, not DIY hybrids.
Are they?

edited to add; apologies, just re read your post. Ignore my last.
 
So with all that drivel, you still can't evidence your claim. Thanks,

You join the Military to do the exercises to go on tours. You use civilian support sensibly to make sure military do what military need to do and no more.

if you write the correct contracts and recruit the right people, you get the right service, it's not rocket science.
I think I can see the problem the Army may have had with Civilianisation
 
No, you've evidenced nothing. You've vented your spleen and the two are entirely different.

You said: " Im fairly certain that nearly every civvie replacement in the Army has led to more work for those serving and/or more cost to the military and/or less of a service." So, in your own time go on, I'm interested.

We have replaced uniformed personnel all over the RN. It's how you choose to make that transition and how you mange it that adds the value or doesn't. We've taken a lot of time over the TORs for our posts, and there were a lot of them, to understand what we want and what we will get.

The military - civilian transition does impact me as I run a big team where the balance is only going to go one way so that we can prioritise people to operational units, but I still need SQEP and service.. I'm not the kind of person who makes up "jiff jobs".


I vented by giving you these examples?

If you have 600 bods of various ranks and you replace 10% with civilians, generally the duties, exercises, tour commitments, fastballs (and yes jiff jobs, if the bins have blown over in a storm you can send pte bloggs to tidy it up, Mr bloggs will tell you to **** off) and all the other bollocks has to be covered by the remaining 540
As well as my comment above about soldiers having to have more of the burden.
Lets start when I was a tom, they closed 16 regt (The large garrisons) down because it was cheaper to hire civvies, who when working weekend get around 18 quid a hour (I know this because I have a relative working there). Send a civvie on a course? They wont be putting up with a multiple room with strangers they want a Hotel room. Hand over the armoury to civilians? They have exact hours and if you want them outside those hours, you best be paying overtime, they dont care if a landy has broken down and you will be late, its not part of their contract. QM department (All civvies except the QM and RQ) needed to set and take down an event on the weekend? Are you paying? Best get some soldiers from elsewhere to do it then. Etc etc.

What you mean is in the Navy you have replaced military with some cushy jobs with civilians. Ive given you numerous examples of what happens.
Any bellend can say Pte Bloggs in the QMs/Orderly room/Post bunk/Gym costs X amount but a civvie will be 10 grand cheaper. That same bellend can write a contract to ensure that the civvie does the core role of the soldier. It all falls on its arse when you want something outside of the contract. Clearly in your wonderful world, nothing additional ever comes up. Everyone goes to work at 8 leaves at 16.30 having never left their office. In the real and not made up world, shit happens all the time, never mind though you can just tell the pondlife "Thats what they joined up for".
You dont make up jiff jobs, they just happen, the bins have blown over, a large table needs moving for A to B, a tree has fallen the fence line and needs a guard until it can be secured, Op Morlop gets called, Op Temperer gets called, duty driver is on detail but we need to someone to drop off/pick up someone/something. All these things (and more) happen in the Army, not in your part of the military though it must be perfect there.
 
Any bellend can say Pte Bloggs in the QMs/Orderly room/Post bunk/Gym costs X amount but a civvie will be 10 grand cheaper. That same bellend can write a contract to ensure that the civvie does the core role of the soldier. It all falls on its arse when you want something outside of the contract. Clearly in your wonderful world, nothing additional ever comes up. Everyone goes to work at 8 leaves at 16.30 having never left their office. In the real and not made up world, shit happens all the time, never mind though you can just tell the pondlife "Thats what they joined up for".
You dont make up jiff jobs, they just happen, the bins have blown over, a large table needs moving for A to B, a tree has fallen the fence line and needs a guard until it can be secured, Op Morlop gets called, Op Temperer gets called, duty driver is on detail but we need to someone to drop off/pick up someone/something
. All these things (and more) happen in the Army, not in your part of the military though it must be perfect there.
How on earth do civvy companies manage with such things then? (obvious excluding Temperor & Morlop)
 
I vented by giving you these examples?

If you have 600 bods of various ranks and you replace 10% with civilians, generally the duties, exercises, tour commitments, fastballs (and yes jiff jobs, if the bins have blown over in a storm you can send pte bloggs to tidy it up, Mr bloggs will tell you to **** off) and all the other bollocks has to be covered by the remaining 540
As well as my comment above about soldiers having to have more of the burden.
Lets start when I was a tom, they closed 16 regt (The large garrisons) down because it was cheaper to hire civvies, who when working weekend get around 18 quid a hour (I know this because I have a relative working there). Send a civvie on a course? They wont be putting up with a multiple room with strangers they want a Hotel room. Hand over the armoury to civilians? They have exact hours and if you want them outside those hours, you best be paying overtime, they dont care if a landy has broken down and you will be late, its not part of their contract. QM department (All civvies except the QM and RQ) needed to set and take down an event on the weekend? Are you paying? Best get some soldiers from elsewhere to do it then. Etc etc.

What you mean is in the Navy you have replaced military with some cushy jobs with civilians. Ive given you numerous examples of what happens.
Any bellend can say Pte Bloggs in the QMs/Orderly room/Post bunk/Gym costs X amount but a civvie will be 10 grand cheaper. That same bellend can write a contract to ensure that the civvie does the core role of the soldier. It all falls on its arse when you want something outside of the contract. Clearly in your wonderful world, nothing additional ever comes up. Everyone goes to work at 8 leaves at 16.30 having never left their office. In the real and not made up world, shit happens all the time, never mind though you can just tell the pondlife "Thats what they joined up for".
You dont make up jiff jobs, they just happen, the bins have blown over, a large table needs moving for A to B, a tree has fallen the fence line and needs a guard until it can be secured, Op Morlop gets called, Op Temperer gets called, duty driver is on detail but we need to someone to drop off/pick up someone/something. All these things (and more) happen in the Army, not in your part of the military though it must be perfect there.

Lots of government organisations separate operational from non op staff. Operational staff attract a higher pay.

The skills that make a good soldier do not make a good payroll clerk.
 

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