Royal Green Jackets - elite?

#1
Bit of a history question here. I've just been reading Clayton's The British Officer and noticed he referred to the formation of the Royal Green Jackets as the amalgamation of a number of regiments to preserve their 'elite' status. I've also read in a few other places the RGJ being referred to as elite. Having read the Sun I know to take this kind of thing with a pinch of salt as everything is referred to as elite but was wondering why I often see the RGJ being referred to as elite. Is it a social or historical thing? Has this elite status transferred onto the Rifles?
 
#2
Read " The Rifles" by Mark Urban
 
#3
Good as they may be, by definition, no they're not elite.
 
S

stabradop

Guest
#4
My old man was in that regiment - historically they were an elite as in the Napoleonic Wars they started out as hand picked men, chosen for their ability to think for themselves a bit better than the average redcoat.

Elite (occasionally spelled Élite) is taken originally from the Latin, eligere, "to elect" (yes I nicked this from Wiki)
 
#5
stabradop said:
My old man was in that regiment - historically they were an elite as in the Napoleonic Wars they started out as hand picked men, chosen for their ability to think for themselves a bit better than the average redcoat.

Elite (occasionally spelled Élite) is taken originally from the Latin, eligere, "to elect" (yes I nicked this from Wiki)

In fairness to the RGJ, a British Infantry Regiment is better than many of the world's so-called elite or Special Forces units. :roll:

Anyone remember the Egyptian "Force 777"? 8O
 
#6
If the jackets were elite, Werewolf would have forged a fawning, almost stalker-like friendship with one of them on here by now.
 

the_boy_syrup

LE
Book Reviewer
#7
stabradop said:
....., chosen for their ability to think for themselves a bit better than the average redcoat....
"As in bury her here"
"What did you get as a get away car"
"A Mini Moke"
"Choosen men"

They could have marched faster than that heap of sh1t :D
 
#9
FiveAlpha said:
If the jackets were elite, Werewolf would have forged a fawning, almost stalker-like friendship with one of them on here by now.
Like the "friendship" between you and Biscuits_AB? :wink:
 
#10
Werewolf said:
FiveAlpha said:
If the jackets were elite, Werewolf would have forged a fawning, almost stalker-like friendship with one of them on here by now.
Like the "friendship" between you and Biscuits_AB? :wink:
You mean the 'we're both the same poster' fantasy that you've invented and started believing? Anyone that sees through your obsessive lust for soldiers and martial arts which carries you through your mundane civvy life of trolley collecting is a friend in my books.
 
#11
The RGJ like the Light Infantry were considered an elite when they were formed. Sometime early in the Peninsular war there was a requirement for fast moving infantry to harass the French, particularly in the mountain regions of Spain and Portugal. These troops were skirmishers and this new form of warfare caused the French real problems. Due to their unstructured, almost guerilla style of fighting they required a different type of weapon. The preferred choice was the American Baker rifle, which was easier to load and far more accurate than the traditional musket used by the normal redcoats. Their role also required them to be dressed differently to normal infantry, instead of the Redcoat they wore Green jackets to allow for greater camouflage...All things considered, i would say that they were an elite within the Infantry at the time...Just an opinion!

Most of the above info was gleaned from John Laffins book..Tommy Atkins, The story of the English soldier and various other publications.
 
#12
TalaveraTom said:
The RGJ like the Light Infantry were considered an elite when they were formed. Sometime early in the Peninsular war there was a requirement for fast moving infantry to harass the French, particularly in the mountain regions of Spain and Portugal. These troops were skirmishers and this new form of warfare caused the French real problems. Due to their unstructured, almost guerilla style of fighting they required a different type of weapon. The preferred choice was the American Baker rifle, which was easier to load and far more accurate than the traditional musket used by the normal redcoats. Their role also required them to be dressed differently to normal infantry, instead of the Redcoat they wore Green jackets to allow for greater camouflage...All things considered, i would say that they were an elite within the Infantry at the time...Just an opinion!

Most of the above info was gleaned from John Laffins book..Tommy Atkins, The story of the English soldier and various other publications.

'American Baker Rifle', 'New form of Warfare', 'Guerilla Style of fighting' what the fcuk are you on?
The Rifle was designed by an Englishman, how they fought isn't even within TOUCHING distance of geurilla warfare, and skirmishing has been around for thousands of years before that - even the ancient Greeks covered their advance with skirmishers. How could you even type that cr@p with a straight face?

Part of the reason we conceived the 95th was to combat the Fench Voltigeours (i probably misspelt that but I can't be arrsed to look up the correct spelling) who were skirmishers used to cover the advance of the French Line Infantry, who inevitably advanced in column and needed cover. Said French skirmishers also kept eyes offthe French main line, giving their commanders thinking space - preserving the OODA loop, if you will. Interestingly, they used smooth barrelled muskets as opposed to the rifled British design, as they believed rate of fire was more important than accuracy or range, and

As tropper mentioned, Mark Urban's 'The Rifles' is an excellent bok to read, as is 'Redcoat' by Richard Holmes
 
#13
Not sure of the current data, but pretty recently the RGJ made up a disproportionate amount of VERY Senior Officers within the Army. The Army Sergeant Major is Rifles; as is Commander Regional Forces.
 
S

stabradop

Guest
#14
the_boy_syrup said:
stabradop said:
....., chosen for their ability to think for themselves a bit better than the average redcoat....
"As in bury her here"
"What did you get as a get away car"
"A Mini Moke"
"Choosen men"

They could have marched faster than that heap of sh1t :D
:lol: :lol:
 
S

stabradop

Guest
#15
Bravo_Bravo said:
Not sure of the current data, but pretty recently the RGK made up a disproportionate amount of VERY Senior Officers within the Army. The Army Sergeant Major is Rifles; as is Commander Regional Forces.
Think that was one of the reasons they were known as the "Black Mafia"
 
S

stevieni22

Guest
#16
No we are not elite however as a regiment we have put our run time down to 9 mins 30 on entry as we are now overmanned as a regiment and have the option to get better crow from day 1.
 
#17
Yeoman_dai said:
TalaveraTom said:
The RGJ like the Light Infantry were considered an elite when they were formed. Sometime early in the Peninsular war there was a requirement for fast moving infantry to harass the French, particularly in the mountain regions of Spain and Portugal. These troops were skirmishers and this new form of warfare caused the French real problems. Due to their unstructured, almost guerilla style of fighting they required a different type of weapon. The preferred choice was the American Baker rifle, which was easier to load and far more accurate than the traditional musket used by the normal redcoats. Their role also required them to be dressed differently to normal infantry, instead of the Redcoat they wore Green jackets to allow for greater camouflage...All things considered, i would say that they were an elite within the Infantry at the time...Just an opinion!

Most of the above info was gleaned from John Laffins book..Tommy Atkins, The story of the English soldier and various other publications.

'American Baker Rifle', 'New form of Warfare', 'Guerilla Style of fighting' what the fcuk are you on?
The Rifle was designed by an Englishman, how they fought isn't even within TOUCHING distance of geurilla warfare, and skirmishing has been around for thousands of years before that - even the ancient Greeks covered their advance with skirmishers. How could you even type that cr@p with a straight face?

Part of the reason we conceived the 95th was to combat the Fench Voltigeours (i probably misspelt that but I can't be arrsed to look up the correct spelling) who were skirmishers used to cover the advance of the French Line Infantry, who inevitably advanced in column and needed cover. Said French skirmishers also kept eyes offthe French main line, giving their commanders thinking space - preserving the OODA loop, if you will. Interestingly, they used smooth barrelled muskets as opposed to the rifled British design, as they believed rate of fire was more important than accuracy or range, and

As tropper mentioned, Mark Urban's 'The Rifles' is an excellent bok to read, as is 'Redcoat' by Richard Holmes
Have you finished ranting?

I was referring to the American style of Rifle adopted in the Bakers design. Rifles had been about for ages. The Germans, French and even Spanish used them but we didn't!!...too expensive possibly?. During the American War of Independence Colonel Patrick Ferguson came across them being used by hunters, and was impressed enough to outfit 100 of his men to use them. This they did to great effect. He developed a breech design to add to the rifle, to ease the loading and firing of the weapon. In fact the German Jager rifle was also a very respected small arm of the time and was also used as part of the blueprint for the Baker. He tried to have them adopted as the standard British Infantry weapon. This didn't happen due to his untimely death in 1777 where the idea was laid to rest for almost 25 years.
In 1801 the Great General, Sir John Moore formed the Corps of Riflemen specifically to test the American "styled" British Baker Rifle. The unit prospered and was titled the 95th. They along with the 43rd and 52nd formed the first Light infantry Brigade at Shorncliffe under command of General Moore. A year before, Ezekiel Baker a former apprentice to Henry Nock of London, won the competition held to design a new weapon for the infantry and their new role. The idea to furnish British troops with the Baker rifle was reinvented when it was decided to alter the manner in which certain British Infantry would fight, Skirmishing was not common to the BRITISH!...Hence the advent of Light fast moving Infantry to disrupt the enemy's progress and supply accurate and deadly fire on them. Mind you slingshots may have been more accurate than the Muskets used by the British Infantry of the day.
Remember that i was talking about practices new to the British army and not anyone else's, or where the methods may have been invented...Anyhow, The American Rifle design of the 1700s and the German Jager Rifle were two weapons used to inspire the Development of the British Baker Rifle...All this and done with a straight face!

Get off your high horse and calm down...TOOL!
 
#20
Tommo5050 said:
dingerr said:
Good as they may be, by definition, no they're not elite.
Coming from someone who has not served in them your words are empty.
Anyone who's served in any capacity knows they're not elite - merely an infantry battalion who are good at what they do.
 

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