Royal Australian Navy Submarines to go Nuclear

Whining Civvy

War Hero
I’ve just been listening to Biden talking about the deal.
It seems he had forgotten who he was speaking with in Australia, so thanked Boris Johnson, but had to just say something like ‘that guy down under’ instead of naming the Australian PM.
To be fair I struggle with remembering his name, and I live here. Charismatic he ain't.

My MIL's a Green and is livid, it's brilliant.
 

Rab_C

LE
I was thinking more from the operational support side given the UK fleet presence, but happy to be told I'm talking out of my arrrse.
Ah I was only thinking about the manufacture. I am willing to be corrected but aren’t nuke refits now done in Devonport?
 

Fedaykin

Old-Salt
Minor problem with that being that the Los Angeles are dropping out at a rapid rate, and the USN cant get Virginia's out fast enough. Now they are starting to mix building Colombia's in as well.

8 "Astute" comes out only a little bit more crew than 12 Attack...
It won't be an Astute, I will eat my hat if Australia doesn't end up with a Virginia derived design, we are many years away from an actual hull being laid down and the Australians still want local build meaning one of their yards will need to be updated to support what will be an incredibly complex build. So there is plenty of time for US industry to prepare itself to support that build. I could see the initial build using major sections built in a US yard then sent to Australia for final assembly. There is opportunity for Barrow and UK industry to get in on that with sub assemblies and and systems. I would think Babcock and BAE Systems will be very interested in supporting the work needed to reconfigure an Australian yard for nuclear build and setup the support facilities.
 
Depending on the timeline, I wonder if this might feed into the US SSN(X) (i.e. beyond Virginia class) and whatever vague notion of an idea of a plan we might have on the other side of Astute.
 

DSJ

LE

1631797750598.png
 

Fedaykin

Old-Salt
Find below a super example of 'le strop'


They do have a right to be pretty angry, this is a major kick in the teeth for them and a huge industrial/financial loss!

Also if the situation had been reversed I can assure you there are plenty of British politicians who would have made a fairly stroppy response, our Prime Minister hardly has a reputation for being tactful does he...

Also lets be honest problems with the Attack Class are not just down to Naval Group, Australia wanted a capability that other manufacturers felt was unrealistic...an SSK that performs like an SSN! The other offerings were lower risk enhanced SSK, France was the only offering that bit the bullet and offered an SSN converted into an SSK. France offered the Barracuda with French systems but Australia wanted US furnished equipment which further complicated matters, they would have also prefered partial build in France. All the other offerings didn't have full build in Australia as they felt Australian industry wasn't up to delivering what the RAN was asking for. Only France bit the bullet and offered a full Australia build despite all the risk that entailed.

Now consider this, Australia wants to build a nuclear submarine an even more complex type of vessel...
 

bob231

War Hero
Entering TTW without Diplomatic Clearance tends to be an act of war*.

*unless on transit passage, for immediate lifesaving or force majure, or going through an international strait.
In a roundabout way, this was my point. Banning it from entering on the surface is a simple matter of not granting clearance. Banning it from doing something already illegal (entering unannounced while dived) is irrelevant.
 

Majorpain

War Hero
It won't be an Astute, I will eat my hat if Australia doesn't end up with a Virginia derived design, we are many years away from an actual hull being laid down and the Australians still want local build meaning one of their yards will need to be updated to support what will be an incredibly complex build. So there is plenty of time for US industry to prepare itself to support that build. I could see the initial build using major sections built in a US yard then sent to Australia for final assembly. There is opportunity for Barrow and UK industry to get in on that with sub assemblies and and systems. I would think Babcock and BAE Systems will be very interested in supporting the work needed to reconfigure an Australian yard for nuclear build and setup the support facilities.
They want the first steel cut ASAP, its really not got a lot of time and the design will need to be fixed by then or its going to go all Ajax with uranium involved. IMO it has to be majority Australian built because neither the UK or the US has capacity to build anything more than systems to go in it, which feeds into the design point that if you change lots of things with a relatively unskilled workforce, its got a much higher chance of going wrong.

The Elephant in the room is who currently runs the Shipbuilding business right next to the Submarine business? BAE Australia for the Hunter class...
 
They want the first steel cut ASAP, its really not got a lot of time and the design will need to be fixed by then or its going to go all Ajax with uranium involved. IMO it has to be majority Australian built because neither the UK or the US has capacity to build anything more than systems to go in it, which feeds into the design point that if you change lots of things with a relatively unskilled workforce, its got a much higher chance of going wrong.
From Reuters :

"Biden said the three governments would launch an 18-month consultation period "to determine every element of this programme, from workforce, to training requirements, to production timelines" and to ensure full compliance with non-proliferation commitments."

They need to get this right, before they start trying to build. Just getting the industry supply chain QA verification procedures in place will be a major exercise.
 
Isn't that a southern European work-practice though. Get the contract quoting a cheap price, promise certain fulfillment dates and shrug shoulders when it doesn't happen citing circumstances beyond control and by the way the price is more than we anticipated. Once the work is under way the buyer often has little option and this is a favourite tactic with public works. Instead of taking on more staff to finish the contract on time and as promised they take on the minimum workforce to maximise profits, and on public works often grab other contracts which they then start, holding up the current projects so that they are under way before they finish the one at hand.

Apparently it doesn't work with the Aussies who actually see that a contract needs fulfilling as agreed and in the time agreed. This obviously is a concept Les Granotes find difficult to understand.

That's how our motorway maintenance contracts work, I believe.
 

Fedaykin

Old-Salt
There is a political element here as well, Australian elections are fast approaching so this will be a campaigning issue. Morrison is probably attempting to leave a poison pill for a future Labor administration if the Liberal Party fails to win.

Don't expect steel to be cut on any nuclear submarine anytime soon, that will be waaaaay off. More likely is a further SLEP for the Collins class in the interim.
 
This chap is quite good (to me, I don't know how he comes across to RN types), if anyone has the time.
Edit - video dates from Nov '20 but is prescient in ID-ing issues.

 
Last edited:

Latest Threads

Top