Rotherham child abuse scandal: 1,400 kids exploited

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Do you remember when the woke mocked this guy...


Google 'muslamic day guns tshirt'.
Indeed. No-one made the leap from 'ray guns' to 'rape' in his next sentence.

The guy might not be the sharpest tool in the box, and I'm pretty sure that by 'Iraqi law' he meant 'Sharia', but the one thing he didn't do was start name-calling. There was no use of the 'P' or 'N' words. He simply stated, however inarticulately, that he wants British law to retain precedence in this country.
 
Policing is by consent and the loss of 30,000 officers nationally makes for a very thin blue line. Far be it from me to suggest that certain groups within certain communities would get restive over the suggestion that they need to tidy up their acts. And far be it from me to suggest that some sections of some communities are attempting to hold the wider community to ransom. I mean, it’s not as if taxi drivers in Rotherham protested at the suggestion that all cabs should be fitted with CCTV, is it...?
It is by consent and many citizens have a growing contempt for them.. The police senior ranks have always had a tendency to be politicised, throughout history. The kernal of the problem is however, they're have successfully pushed that groupthink down to the grassroots, who tolerated what was going on in the streets they're were responsible for protecting.

The Police seem to have instiutionally convinced itself that nothing could be done, that would not result in trouble and trouble is to be avoided at all costs, is a mantra of the modern service.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
It is by consent and many citizens have a growing contempt for them.. The police senior ranks have always had a tendency to be politicised, throughout history. The kernal of the problem is however, they're have successfully pushed that groupthink down to the grassroots, who tolerated what was going on in the streets they're were responsible for protecting.

The Police seem to have instiutionally convinced itself that nothing could be done, that would not result in trouble and trouble is to be avoided at all costs, is a mantra of the modern service.
Yes and no.

One of the problems is that like promotes like, for sure. Don't use the right language or espouse the same views? You're doomed. It's the same right across the civil service.

I do know a few coppers though who've stayed in the job because they want to make a difference despite the prevailing politics.

I also know a few coppers who've become very, very cynical.
 
Yes and no.

One of the problems is that like promotes like, for sure. Don't use the right language or espouse the same views? You're doomed. It's the same right across the civil service.

I do know a few coppers though who've stayed in the job because they want to make a difference despite the prevailing politics.

I also know a few coppers who've become very, very cynical.
1. A Legal system which is adverserial and gives weight to character above everything.
2. A social system dominated by personal choice and a groupthink failure to differentiate adults from children.
3. A plod focused on resourcing and entirely risk averse and need to avoid trouble, making them useful for dealing with drunks and mentally ill, whilst zipping about in fast cars like a glorified ambulance service.
4. Governments in thrall to fashion and almost desperate to avoid negative stories that involve ethnic groups, enforcing a general view that nothing bad can flow from migration.

The above is all part of the groupthink which has infested this debate. For me the worst aspect, is the entire story was intentionally clouded with secrecy and the childrens own status was used by the state, to ignore what was going on.

I am almost certain stuff must be still going on, as the culture of secrecy still exists and with nobody to blame and no systemic changes in the groupthink, nothing has really changed at all.
 
My bold for years it was actual Government policy
Here's a recording of Nazir Afzal, formerly in the CPS, on Radio 4, 19th October 2018. Listen to him at 2:02:
“You may not know this, but back in 2008 the Home office sent a circular to all police forces in the country saying ‘as far as these young girls who are being exploited in towns and cities, we believe that they have made an informed choice about their sexual behaviour and therefore it is not for you police officers to get involved in.’”
I'd like to know why this statement wasn't followed up by the BBC, because if it's true then Gordon Brown and Home Secretary Jacqui Smith should be held to account"

Let's not forget this little gem.

This circular needs finding.

Everyone involved in its formulation should be dealt with. Publicly.
 
Do you remember when the woke mocked this guy...


Google 'muslamic day guns tshirt'.
In this age of tweets / video uploads and trial by social media , this clip has been used ad infinitum to stifle debate and portray those who are concerned about the issues highlighted as non mensa members. At it's core the message is crystal clear. Those who would use it to brand those who support its message as one of the "ists" should be far more concerned about their moral compass.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
In this age of tweets / video uploads and trial by social media , this clip has been used ad infinitum to stifle debate and portray those who are concerned about the issues highlighted as non mensa members. At it's core the message is crystal clear. Those who would use it to brand those who support its message as one of the "ists" should be far more concerned about their moral compass.
Yes, but see also "Rivers of blood", "There's no such thing as community" and "We should be proud we have food banks".

Prejudiced, callous words in and of themselves which are very different when taken in their full context.
 
Yes, but see also "Rivers of blood", "There's no such thing as community" and "We should be proud we have food banks".

Prejudiced, callous words in and of themselves which are very different when taken in their full context.
Alternatively, the psyche and behavioural experts all agree that conflict derives from competition over resources.. Ergo, by bringing in millions of people it was inevitable that conflict and in the case of this scandal, that conflict is over young kids who the state have failed to look after.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Alternatively, the psyche and behavioural experts all agree that conflict derives from competition over resources.. Ergo, by bringing in millions of people it was inevitable that conflict and in the case of this scandal, that conflict is over young kids who the state have failed to look after.
I was talking about the selective (mis-)use of words, not the politics - how selective editing changes interpretation entirely. I wasn’t talking about conflict over resources and what that may give rise to.
 
Easy solution - supply your own.


My bold at their OWN COST, not the public purse, the same should apply to all cases where an interpreter is needed NHS etc, where in my own experience I have seen an Indian who had had a stroke in India, was flown to Heathrow, met by relatives and brought strait to the hospital I was in and dumped. He spoke no English and had to have an interpreter every time a nurse/doctor/physio etc needed to talk to him. His "family" hardly ever visited him and this went on for at least two weeks when I left.
Given the exorbitant cost of this service, see Rates for interpreting (UK only)
snip "Rates for consecutive interpreting:
£275 for half a day (up to 4 hours), £475 for a full day (up to 8 hours)
Extra hour: £90
Rates for simultaneous interpreting:
£275 for half a day (up to 4 hours), £475 for a full day (up to 8 hours)
Extra hour: £90
Rates for liaison interpreting:
£275 for half a day (up to 4 hours), £475 for a full day (up to 8 hours)
Extra hour: £90"

And people wonder why the NHS is broke!!
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
My bold at their OWN COST, not the public purse, the same should apply to all cases where an interpreter is needed NHS etc, where in my own experience I have seen an Indian who had had a stroke in India, was flown to Heathrow, met by relatives and brought strait to the hospital I was in and dumped. He spoke no English and had to have an interpreter every time a nurse/doctor/physio etc needed to talk to him. His "family" hardly ever visited him and this went on for at least two weeks when I left.
Given the exorbitant cost of this service, see Rates for interpreting (UK only)
snip "Rates for consecutive interpreting:
£275 for half a day (up to 4 hours), £475 for a full day (up to 8 hours)
Extra hour: £90
Rates for simultaneous interpreting:
£275 for half a day (up to 4 hours), £475 for a full day (up to 8 hours)
Extra hour: £90
Rates for liaison interpreting:
£275 for half a day (up to 4 hours), £475 for a full day (up to 8 hours)
Extra hour: £90"

And people wonder why the NHS is broke!!
Equally, there have been instances in the north-west of England where those in court on riot charges have been let go because it was stated that they were the only English speakers in their respective households and to go to jail would cause hardship to other family members.

It's a system and it gets played, undoubtedly.
 
In this age of tweets / video uploads and trial by social media , this clip has been used ad infinitum to stifle debate and portray those who are concerned about the issues highlighted as non mensa members. At it's core the message is crystal clear. Those who would use it to brand those who support its message as one of the "ists" should be far more concerned about their moral compass.
And because he was white, male and illiterate NOBODY asked WHY he was feeling as he did. He was just marginalised and mocked.

And perhaps that could explain a future backlash.
 
I was talking about the selective (mis-)use of words, not the politics - how selective editing changes interpretation entirely. I wasn’t talking about conflict over resources and what that may give rise to.
Perspective is everything....
Conflict over resources creates an in group and out group.
The exploiters in this story, almost certainly saw the victims as part of an out group.
The exploiters clearly had protection from the authorites, which in an inverse of logic decided they're were the out group and in a perverse way, needed protection from these kids.

The point is the politics is critical to understanding, why this happened and likely continues to happen in a tighter grouping of insiders.
 
And because he was white, male and illiterate NOBODY asked WHY he was feeling as he did. He was just marginalised and mocked.

And perhaps that could explain a future backlash.
Nothing to see here, move along, just a silly working class white man, move along now...
 

overopensights

ADC
Book Reviewer
Well perhaps Tower Hamlets can declare independence from the rest of the UK if they're so unhappy with the way they're being treated.
Cut off all of the 1st world luxuries such as electricity, running water and let's see how long Brick lane remains a tourist attraction...
In years to come, parts of London will be a system of connected Kraals!
 
Perspective is everything....
.........................................
The point is the politics and culture are critical to understanding, why this happened and likely continues to happen in a tighter grouping of insiders.
Edited for accuracy.
 

Londo

LE
My bold at their OWN COST, not the public purse, the same should apply to all cases where an interpreter is needed NHS etc, where in my own experience I have seen an Indian who had had a stroke in India, was flown to Heathrow, met by relatives and brought strait to the hospital I was in and dumped. He spoke no English and had to have an interpreter every time a nurse/doctor/physio etc needed to talk to him. His "family" hardly ever visited him and this went on for at least two weeks when I left.
Given the exorbitant cost of this service, see Rates for interpreting (UK only)
snip "Rates for consecutive interpreting:
£275 for half a day (up to 4 hours), £475 for a full day (up to 8 hours)
Extra hour: £90
Rates for simultaneous interpreting:
£275 for half a day (up to 4 hours), £475 for a full day (up to 8 hours)
Extra hour: £90
Rates for liaison interpreting:
£275 for half a day (up to 4 hours), £475 for a full day (up to 8 hours)
Extra hour: £90"

And people wonder why the NHS is broke!!
I've mentioned on these pages once before . My one and only visit to the brand new health center built on the site of a very nice pub before it was pulled down .
Went up to the reception desk and there was a Somali woman already there and although I kept a discreet distance I could not help overhear part of the conversation with the receptionist " Is it about the worms ? " and "the translator will be here shortly please take a seat "
Why her worms would need a translator is beyond me .
 
Let's not forget this little gem.

This circular needs finding.

Everyone involved in its formulation should be dealt with. Publicly.
Indeed reading recent posts re Manchester I was remimnded that it was in fact actual Government policy as handed down to the CPS/Police as stated in my post 4927 on this thread!
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Perspective is everything....
Conflict over resources creates an in group and out group.
The exploiters in this story, almost certainly saw the victims as part of an out group.
The exploiters clearly had protection from the authorites, which in an inverse of logic decided they're were the out group and in a perverse way, needed protection from these kids.

The point is the politics is critical to understanding, why this happened and likely continues to happen in a tighter grouping of insiders.
You're off down completely the wrong track.

In this instance, an inarticulate individual was quoted and then ridiculed - because his diction was poor and likely because those interpreting his words were setting out to cause ridicule. Hence, my point that 'ray guns' was in fact 'rape gangs' and that was clear in his next sentence.

The two famous speeches and the interview I quoted as example (Enoch Powell, Margaret Thatcher and Jacob Rees-Mong respectively) are all examples of how a few words grabbed out of a rather longer discourse were twisted way beyond their original meaning and context.
 

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