Rodneys = High Jinks

[error_unknown]

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=414391

If it was the blokes and not Rodneys it would have been "mindless vandalism", and they'd all be in nick now.

 

[Jip Travolta]

True...very true.

One rule for them....as usual
 

 

[fadgaf.45]

IM AMAZED THAT ANY OF THE BENDERS HAD ENOUGH DRIVE TO WRECK ANYTHING AFTER 3 GLASSES OF PIMMS ALSO THEY ARE TRYING TO BLAME IT ON SECURITY hang em high

 

[woopert]

I wouldn't presume that this will just get forgotten about. Behaviour like this doesn't go unpunished, and it would be wrong to suggest that it does.

When an officer(s) vandalises a mess or function (and that is what it is effectively) the guilty parties will be hauled in front of the CO and made to pay for the damage in its entirety, that is before any punitive measure is taken in the form of a fine and extra duties. If the individual(s) behaviour is bad enough it can even have consequences on career and promotion.

Let's say in this instance the damage to the projector costs £2000 to put right, the screen another £1000, plus £2000 of damage to fixtures and fittings, that's £5k to be coughed up and usually all in one go! Then comes the fines and other punishments.

The reason that many of the soldiers perceive there to be an imbalance is because they usually get marched in accompanied by the RSM/CSM given a bollocking, and fined before the punishment detail is dished out. If it had been a couple of soldiers found to have caused that amount of damage it would be unreasonable to expect them to be able to stump up £5k in one hit when they earn £13k a year, and so the fines are often only a fraction of the true cost of the damage caused.

The "high spirits" and "Rodney's get away with it every time when soldiers wouldn't" is a myth, ask any of us who have been stuck with the cost of replacing anything whether the damage was caused by a genuine accident or not!

 

[Pastover]

Couldn't agree more with woops.

Do you have any idea how dull it can be having 128 extras.  I tried to get then to run one after the other but the adjt was so cross( so was the CO but he could hardly speak at the time , face gone all red, dribbling and eyes poppong out) that he said that the two of us could do them on alternate days.  Nearly a whole year buggered up.  
I also remember the captain who set fire to a subbies bed cos he had left a dinner night before the CO once too often getting Court Matrtialed  as Muddy, the big cheese at the time, was not happy that he only did it to teach the little peasant a lesson.  He let the little shit get out of bed before he lit the petrol.  Only a little damage to the room.  Bed a write off though.
2 years civvie nick and cashiered.  Bit steep!
They asked all the adjts in Germany what they thought and the majority said bit steep boss but the confirmed it.  Muddy was no lover of hi jinks.

 

[Pastover]

Sorry last posting full of typos.  Trying to learn how to touch type and getting over confident.  
What ever happened to my typist.  I am sure she was here a minute ago or was that 15 years ago.  Such advances we have made.  So many pretty girls without jobs and so many old duffers trying to get their work done with two fingers.

Progress......... such a great thing

 

[error_unknown]

A suitably verbose and articulate riposte Woopert.

Untrue though.

The imbalance is not perceived, but real. There has always been one and there always will.

When rankers get bounced, the emphasis is on public humiliation throughout sentencing and punishment.

When officers get bounced it is done on the QT. The day we see the parade square getting weeded or bollards being painted by someone with a commission will be the day the balance is restored.

 

[woopert]

day we see the parade square getting weeded or bollards being painted by someone with a commission will be the day the balance is restored.

I see that side of the argument too, and don't entirely disagree with you there.

It's also v uncommon to see an SNCO painting grass green, but they do get bollockings within their own "system". The issue is that we rely quite heavily between the Sgt's and Officers "messes" on authority through earned resepct. When an Officer gets wasted and trashes a room it usually doesn't mean he can't do his job even if he has been stupid and inevitably gets a kicking for it from the CO. The issue is that the soldiers knowing Sir has got drunk and been a bit stupid, while not being an issue that prevents him fomr doing his job properly, could undermine his authority. I accept that if you have the privilidge of the lifestyle that you should behave in a fitting manner, but we are all human and all let the side down from time to time and do the stupid things that common sense tells us we shouldn't (usually when drunk!). I don't know about punsihments not being public though, next time you look in your Regt'l magazine have a look at the donations to obscure things like the "Regimental Goat Museum" or "Mess Silvers Fund". Chances are if the money is in multiples of hundreds and comes from a serving officer, he was caught pissing in the ornamental fountain in the middle of the mess-courtyard after the last dinner night  :-/

I agree entirely that having trained soldiers painting grass green and curb stones white is a total waste of resource, but that is a cultural thing that would take time to change, providing someone could come up with an effective alternative form of punishment. The whole idea behind mundane tasks like this is that it is supplimental to the usual jobs/tasks soldiers do to emphasise the point that this is punishment for wrong-doing. I would be open to suggestion about acceptable alternatives, but I don't know if the system would be.

 

[CGS]

True...very true.

One rule for them....as usual

We all have anecdotes whereby we can see injustice, but the reality is very different since the introduction of the revised Human Rights legislation and its impact upon the services.  Fines for damage to public property should not be extracted (or viewed) as a punishment.

If you read the Sun, Independent, Express, Telegraph etc... and believe everything that you read, then of course you'll believe this story.  If you know anything about the way in which the military acts over such matters (or indeed about this story), then you'll know that the consequences easily match the infraction and that in this case the report is quite incorrect!

 

[Ford_Prefect]

As an officer I get bounced by a Brigadier not the OC, no date set as of yet; wait out.

Lets not look to closely at these 'inequities' the bop on camp is collectively trashed every friday night and its not a massive deal.  This is just an example of the press (representing civilian life) gaining a small insight into the military world which is sufficiently different to civilian life to warrent a sensationalist story.  Yes there are inequities between officers, SNCOs and ORs.  I take it these critics have never had to complete months of dogshit essay competition training.  Clearly these people have a beef with officers that goes beyond the matter of the issues at hand and to them I say:  Should have tried harder at school!

 

[Trotsky]

As a police officer if I "trashed" the Chief Supts do I would be arrested, charged with Section 1 Criminal Damage Act 1971  loose my job and quite probably go to prison.

:-[

The Officer who got "2 years civvie nick" appears to have endangered life , with intent,  punishable with up to a life  sentence.



I take it that in these circumstances you are not , arrested, fingerprinted, photographed and DNA'd as a civillian would be after a pub fight?

Also if a civillian did this he would end with a real recordable criminal record not a bit of army internal disicipline?

Its seems to me paying for the damage and some extras is a bit of a light let of really.

Trotsky

 

[fadgaf.45]

part of the problem is that a 24 yr old lance jack who may have done 8 yrs with boy service can and will be bust and jailed for his crimes whereas a 21 yr old rodney commits the same crime and gets a few extras-evidentally the army,very wrongly ,has tried to make a correlation between intelligence and education the 2 are definately worlds apart

 

[fadgaf.45]

As an officer I get bounced by a Brigadier not the OC, no date set as of yet; wait out.

Lets not look to closely at these 'inequities' the bop on camp is collectively trashed every friday night and its not a massive deal.  This is just an example of the press (representing civilian life) gaining a small insight into the military world which is sufficiently different to civilian life to warrent a sensationalist story.  Yes there are inequities between officers, SNCOs and ORs.  I take it these critics have never had to complete months of dogshit essay competition training.  Clearly these people have a beef with officers that goes beyond the matter of the issues at hand and to them I say:  Should have tried harder at school!

i know several ors on this board who left school at 16 and make more than a brigadier due to work ethic and common sense you pretentious condescending little pr1ck

 

[Eggbanjo]

I spent several months as part of the Battalion 'silver helmet display team' for various indescretions while I was in, and although I was pissed off at the time I took it on the chin and moved on....................such is life.

The only real choker was after getting a right royal bollocking  from the Adjt once for letting down my Regt/Company/Platoon/mum/Dad/uncle tom cobbley after getting my kit off when drunk, the spinless streak of piss was overheard in the mess to say "Isn't that Pte...........a character"

Mind you he gave me his shoes to bull up when I was in the digger so I had a few J Arthur's in them as payback

Anyway I digress, was my punishment any worse than one poor Lt who knocked the crown off the top of the colours as he left the Garrison Church  

I think the poor bugger's still doing extra duties to this day (and its getting on for 16 years ago) whereas I was out and back OTP 28 days later.

 

[woopert]

can and will be bust and jailed for his crimes whereas a 21 yr old rodney commits the same crime and gets a few extras-

If a soldier does something severe enough to warrant busting and an officer pulled the same stunt, although you won't necessarily see it, he would get more than just a few extras.

Most COs take the issue of busting someone down very seriously and don't do it at a whim as good NCOs are hard to come by/retain these days, and if you are good enough to gain a stripe or two the last thing a CO wants is to loose that as it ultimately compromises the unit more than the individual. If busting is seriously considered it is because the actions of the individual are serious enough to warrant it as just punishment, or their actions call their judgement or discernment into question. If an officer did something that bad that had he been a soldier he would have been busted for it, chances are he is looking at an early stroll down civvie strasse.

 

[fadgaf.45]

i have known some very well respected jncos bust down for some quite trivial crap and troop commanders get away with murder[not literally]hence my seeming lack of reason on some posts-i would also like to make it clear that i have no animosity toward officers. as for the extras deal- sitting down drinking a cup of coffee as orderly officer or running round the square with a bulled shell above your head which is the harshest punishment?

 

[Bow_Man]

When officers get bounced it is done on the QT. The day we see the parade square getting weeded or bollards being painted by someone with a commission will be the day the balance is restored.

Convoy I beg to differ.  There is nothing more public than having the entire months duty roster republished with delete following names and insert the following name.  Everyone in the regiment knows that you have dropped a bollock.  Believe me I have dropped a few in my time.

 

[Ford_Prefect]

"i know several ors on this board who left school at 16 and make more than a brigadier due to work ethic and common sense you pretentious condescending little pr1ck "


Elaborate.  I dont follow. Before you are rude try being coherent.

 

[fadgaf.45]

evidently you should have tried harder in school- if you think that the distinguishing factor between offrs and ors is based on academic ability then you are way off base . many ors excelled in school but for personal or financial reasons chose not to go on to tertiary education and joined the ranks . my inflammatory remarks were highlighting the fact that with a level playing field[not in army]many ors have proven to be every bit as intelligent driven and successful as their commissioned counterparts which further underlines the ridiculous,archaic way the army differentiates its punishments for the same crime.without meaning to sound like a commie i believe that a commission still relies on a families social standing as much as it does on the ability of an individual in THE MAJORITYof cases

 

[Bagpuss]

Fagdaf - I'm not sure when you joined & left but you're out of date.  The social standing of your family is irrelevant to those passing out of Sandhurst nowadays.  The days of filling in for three years before going off to the city and joining Daddy's Bank are long gone for most.

I think back to my platoon at Sandhurst in the mid 90's and there were a number of individuals that would have been marked down as fitting that mould (cords in colours not thought possible, brown brogues, etc) but they are still in and grafting hard and doing well for themselves.

I think of my peers and there are very few who come from an overly privilaged background.  Rather, most now come from families who have made their own sacrifices to put their kids through a decent education to give them an opportunity in life.  What the kids choose to make of that opportunity is up to them..... "The majority" that you speak of just doesn't exist anymore.

Anyway Brother come the revolution.....

To get back on thread. I remember an incident about 3 or 4 years ago in a garrison town in Germany - two subbies parked a car with NI plates on camp in a silly position.  The inevitable happened, the balloon went up, the CO went apoplectic and the Adjt turned mean.  The subbies in question got umpteen extras which you may think par for the course.  However, as a perfectly apt twist they weren't left to "sit... down drinking a cup of coffee as orderly officer", they were put on the front gate of the Regt with a rifle in hand, doing day on day off until they had paid their due.  A fine public humiliation and punishment with a certain poetic justice!