Robbing MPs Try To Slime Their Way Out Of Being Prosecuted.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Travis_Bickle, Feb 6, 2010.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    They simply do not get it.

    If ANY Serviceman - or Civil Servant, come to that - fiddled their expenses they'd be out on their arrse. It's OK for MPs, of course as they made the rules up themselves, which apparently excuses them from normal behaviour - i.e. decency and propriety.


    Guido Fawkes has it spot-on in the Times today:

    "Should expense-fiddling MPs be prosecuted?
    When Enron bosses cheated their customers, they went to prison. Why should our MPs be any different?

    If 52 per cent of the staff of a company were found to have cheated their customers it would be fair to say that firm was a criminal enterprise, a racket. Only a small percentage of Enron’s staff was crooked, yet the whole company was closed down by the authorities.

    What can we do when it is 52 per cent of MPs, the law-making “authorities”, who are doing the racketeering?
  2. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    They are trying to claim immunity from prosecution on the basis of Parliamentary Privilege.

    Parliamentary Privilege does not provide MP's with immunity from most civil lawsuits, let alone Criminal Prosecutions brought by the Crown.

    That's right Devine, Chaytor and Morley - you are facing criminal charges for fraud. Parliament has no rights of immunity in such cases. All parliament can do is retrospectively change the law to say that defrauding your employer is no longer an offence, the likehood of which happening is precisely zero - if only they'd known in advance that the Telegraph was going to break the story eh?

    Isn't it funny how it's 3 Labour MPs who are trying to defend the indefensible by claiming immunity from their own laws, and yet their own party called the police in to arrest a Conservative MP, AND search his parliamentary offices simply because he spoke to the press about government fraud and incompetence.

    Well done the CPS. We can be fairly sure that they have done their homework, and I sincerely hope that the Judge takes into account the refusal to admit their crimes and their attempts to avoid prosecution by hiding behind the skirt of Parliament, and thusly sentences them to the full period in jail as allowed by British Law (as passed in Parliament). Ooooh dont'cha just love the irony?

    Edited to add: As for them not admitting a 'guilty mind', using half sentient lawyers. I don't believe ignorance is a defence when it comes to breaches of the law, guilty mind or not.

    Here's a direct quotation from the Privileges Committee:

    and here's a real corker:

    For your delectation and delight: Parliamentary Privilege
  3. And that's galling enough in itself that they made the rules so they could claim for things everybody else has to pay out of their own pocket, but even that wasn't enough for some of the bastards. They then went and claimed for things that even their own unbelievably generous rules didn't allow.
  4. There would have to be some serious conscience searching to do by all the major actors in this Central London frace, as with the public outrage over their greedy theft, the soundbites and rhetoric from Party leaders about cleaning up Parliament and more transprency and then for the only Four people to be charged with any crime to have it annulled, or whatever the correct legal term is, due to Parliemtary privilege, is arguably the biggest irony and betrayal in British Politics, Ever!

    You couldn't make this shit up!!
  5. Oh c'mon, you don't actually expect anyone to be sent to the naughty corner?
  6. Jim Devine (Labour, Livingston) is reported as saying that he was simply "niaive" in his expenses claims.

    He is accused of dishonestly claiming £3,240 for cleaning services and £5,505 for stationery using false invoices.

    (MY BOLD)

    He used false invoices!

    In my opinion, Sir you are nothing but a common thief and a liar to boot.

    See you in court.
  7. "Freedom from arrest in civil cases should be abolished (it has never applied in criminal cases). So should the obscure privilege of peerage. Members should cease to be exempt from subpoenas to attend court as witnesses, but a subpoena should not be issued against a member without the approval of a judge"

    That little bit worries me. An MP should be able to say what they like in the Commons and reveal ANY information about anyone or anything they so please. How they got that information SHOULD NOT be a matter for the courts. Chip away too many of the priviliges that protect MP's from the anger of the Government of the day and the Powerful and we end up with nothing.

    And frankly I despise this Government's mindless mantra of "New laws" everytime they get caught out. There's more than enough law in the UK today that covers this. Use the laws that exist properly and you might actually get somewhere...
  8. What he said.
  9. Biped

    Biped LE Book Reviewer

    I'd be happy for them to continue being free from arrest in civil cases - they are civil cases after all. On matters of criminal liability, they should be offered no preferential treatment, and this is what they are claiming that they have.
  10. Sixty

    Sixty LE Moderator Book Reviewer
    1. ARRSE Cyclists and Triathletes

    From today's Guardian:

  11. engr172

    engr172 Old-Salt Book Reviewer

    What I don't understand, is if 300+ have been asked to repay money, why are only these few up before the beak? They should all be done, the horrible, grasping shower of shiiiiiiite.
  12. Just when you thought that they couldn't get ANY slimier.

    What these four have done is a different level from the other stuff. Notwithstanding the ethics of claiming for some of the stuff that we have read about, rules are rules, and I know that if I was entitled to claim for something in my Army days, I would. It is clear that the rules are/were wrong and needed amending. There IS a difference, however, between claiming for dodgy stuff within the rules and falsely submitting invoices.

    These odious scumbags have broken the law (allegedly) and should feel the full force of it.

    Nice point BTW on the police and the Damian Green issue.
  13. I particularly detest Devine. He is from the same peoples group that Michael Martin is from and even though they have been advised that the famine is over they are still leeching here. Summed up perfectly by the observation that: they hate our crown but love our half-crown.
  14. Jime Devine the thief trying to explain his way out of it.... at

    He seems to be saying " a big boy did it and ran away" he also drops the Unions and NHS in it at about 10.10